Episode 39: John Macfarlane ’00 on Building Relationships through Music
Listen to "John MacFarlane ’00 on Building Relationships through Music" on Spreaker.
While I was looking back at my notes from my nearly two-hour interview with John Macfarlane ’00, I was drawn to his description of how people are always looking for the “magic bullet.” He said that, in a group with a common objective, there isn’t a right way of doing something (like performing a piece), but the only way to do it is together.
Being the coach of a youth volleyball team and having played on numerous teams, this struck a chord for me. There isn’t a secret formula that helps you win or perform well. The teams that are the most successful are the ones that find a way to work together. It sounds so simple; yet so many of us struggle to bring our teams together, whether in sports, music, or our professions. Team building is one of my favorite things about coaching youth sports. Even though it can be boiled down to teaching young people what it is like to work with others to accomplish a shared goal, it is also a constant struggle to get everyone on the same page.
I really enjoyed learning how much John and I had in common (outside of his wildly successful musical career that is). He comes from a long history in music and I come from a long history in sports. I thought I might wind up in over my head in a conversation around musical instruments. But in reality, we could relate on so many levels: from music to sports, the importance of relationship building and team work, constantly practicing and critiquing your work, and being raised around a hobby or vocation that you grow to love and that becomes a part of who you are. I hope you are also challenged to think about how lessons from John’s music career can relate to your own work.
Transcript:
[MUSIC PLAYING] CASSIE PETOSKEY: Welcome to Northwestern Intersections, a Northwestern Network podcast where we talk to alumni about their careers. We'll hear what they've done right, what they've done wrong, and the stories behind both. I'm Cassie Petoskey with the Northwestern Alumni Association Career Advancement Team. And today, I'm speaking with John MacFarlane.
John has performed and has served as the concertmaster for numerous orchestras around the country, and he is currently the assistant principal second violin of the Chicago Lyric Opera Orchestra. John, thanks so much for being here with us today.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Thank you for having me.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And we're so excited to hear about the work that you're doing at the opera right now, but we'd love to start with, what was your first job?
JOHN MACFARLANE: Well, my very first job was, right after I was done with grad school, I joined the Evansville Philharmonic Orchestra in Evansville, Indiana as the concertmaster of their orchestra. And that was a three-pronged position, where I was the concertmaster of the orchestra, and then also the first violinist in the resident string quartet, called the Eykamp String Quartet. And also taught at the local university, the University of Evansville.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Wow, so you were doing three jobs, basically, in one, for your first job out of school?
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah, but the way that they structured it made it so that it wasn't as if they were three full-time jobs. There was an adjunct instructor aspect at the University. And the string quartet and the orchestra took up the majority of the time.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Great. And so I'm guessing those are the aspects that you enjoyed the most.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Well, they were the aspects that were the most important part of that job. I had the job at a very young age. I was young for music, in a position of leadership, as it were. I was 22 when I got the job. And I remember having a student who was a year younger than I was at the University, who was calling me Mr. MacFarlane. That was a little bit much.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, yeah. And so you were in a leadership role at the age of 22, teaching students who were just a few years younger.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And how did you build that rapport with students and the boundaries? Because you were probably so close to what they were doing at the time.
JOHN MACFARLANE: For me, at that point, is not necessarily in the sort of professorship role of mentoring, as much as it is talking about-- since you're close enough to the problems of pursuing music, and you're right in it, and you're just starting out, you almost have a collegiate relationship, in the sense of being able to just continue with conversations that you were having with your fellow students a couple of years before.
It wasn't as if you're placed on a sort of pedestal, or anything like that. You're just given the opportunity to share with them, sometimes just very technical things about music or violin playing that maybe you've had the opportunity to figure out.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. And one of the things you mentioned there was the challenges of the industry. And you are very successful in this industry. Where did this passion in you come from, that made you want to pursue this as a long-term career?
JOHN MACFARLANE: Well, I've been playing the violin for a very long time, since I was three years old. But as far as where the passion for it to continue as a career, I would say that I figured that out when I was at Northwestern, actually. And there's so that you can take here, outside of the music side of things.
And I also got a certificate in music theater, when I was here, and pursued lots of other avenues of higher education learning here at Northwestern. But what brought me want to pursue this as a career was really the repertoire that's in classical music, is this incredible tradition and this incredible amount of amazing music. I didn't want to be missing out on playing that for my career.
For instance, right now at Lyric, we're performing Strauss's Elektra, which is this incredible work. And I'm so fortunate to get to play it. And if I wasn't in music, I wouldn't be in the thick of it. And that's part of where that passion comes from. It's just, I suppose, what they everybody calls now fear of missing out. So I guess it's part of that.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: FOMO?
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah, FOMO. But it's not so much wanting to miss the party. Maybe it's kind of the party, but really what it's about is being able to be with that incredible work, and to be able to actually sink your teeth into it.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. And I am very curious about the three-pronged aspect to your first job, because I know, throughout your career, you've done a number of different things. You've been a concertmaster, you've taught. And so how does one aspect influence your work in another? How does your performance influence your work as a concertmaster? And that influences your work--
JOHN MACFARLANE: In terms of the concertmaster stuff, that's where you're playing violin in and you're in the front of the orchestra, and you're sort of leading the orchestra, in that sense. The conductor is the main CEO type, I suppose, and then the concertmaster is there to, in some ways-- and it depends on the relationship that you have with the conductor-- but has to do with how you, more or less, translate what the conductor is trying to convey-- especially if they're not a string player-- to try to convey it to the section as a whole.
And you do that through physical gesture, and you do that sometimes with just talking in a rehearsal about, what part of the bow do we use here. And you also are in charge of deciding what the bowings will be. So where you go up and where you go down matters quite a lot. This is all getting a little technical.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Technical, yeah.
JOHN MACFARLANE: And sort of music-oriented, as opposed to career-oriented. But it really has a lot to do with building those kind of relationships between the different players involved, and bringing it to be a cohesive whole of a performance.
A huge amount of it is that we don't have much rehearsal time. And so a big part of the concertmaster's job is to get things figured out as quickly as possible, because rehearsal time is very expensive. Because you have so many people in the room, and there's such a limited amount of it. So to get the best possible product out, you really need to be able to figure these things out rather quickly.
And so all of the different parts that you learn, either just from playing the violin or from playing chamber music with people, or from working with students, as well, you gain a better understanding of how to translate these kind of things, in a very practical way, quickly.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting. I come from a sports background. I'm trying to translate this into like-- in sports, the floor captain, or the quarterback, on the field, playing the instruments, but leading.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah, that's a good analogy. I think that that would work pretty well.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. And building those leadership skills. So what did you pick up from Northwestern that helped you in those leadership roles early on?
JOHN MACFARLANE: I think mainly confidence and understanding that, if you have a purity about what you're trying to do, and to have it not be some kind of political, or for the wrong reasons. Instead, if you're actually just purely invested in the work, I think that comes across very quickly to people, when you're working on a piece of music.
That if they know that that's what you're there for, then they're more than happy to listen to that and join with you on that. Instead of if you're coming at it from sort of a more impure standpoint of "being in charge," quote unquote, and having that be what's important. Instead of having it be about trying to get the best possible musical product out.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. When you talk about going in with the right intentions, doing things for the right reasons, how important is it to be successful in this industry, to have that type of mindset, to really make it?
JOHN MACFARLANE: It depends on what you mean by successful. I think it's possible, honestly, to have some kind of material success without that. But I don't think that many people can last in it that way. I think you're much more likely to build better relationships with your colleagues if it's always coming from the place that we were talking, about actually creating good work and having that be the motive that actually can keep you going a lot.
Because it's not a particularly lucrative industry, and there's so many different things that can go wrong. So that ends up having much more longevity, I think, for someone's career.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Mm-hmm. It's been fun for me interviewing alumni from various levels in their career. And the fact that you said, it depends on what you mean by successful. Like you're in your career, you know what you want and what you've been trying to work towards, because you're experienced. And various people at different levels define success differently--
JOHN MACFARLANE: Right.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: --at different times throughout their career. And you mentioned that in this industry, a lot of different things can go wrong. And for younger alumni, [INAUDIBLE] what are some of the tips or advice you would provide to them, the keys to your success summed up in one of our podcasts? Years of experience summed up. But just some tips?
JOHN MACFARLANE: I would say the first thing would be to ask questions like, why, at the beginning of a problem, as opposed to asking how right away. If you're focused purely on how to play a piece of music or how to get a particular job, or something, you're farther away from the truth of it than if you're asking why.
So why did the composer write it this way? Why is it in this key? Why is this rhythm here? Why do I want this particular position? These questions, I think, lead us much quicker to answers of how than we expect. A lot of times, we're on the outside of it, and we're just constantly trying to say, play the piece of music right, and get the rhythm right, and get it correct.
And while that's a laudable goal-- we shouldn't be playing it wrong-- but at the same time, if you attack it from a slightly different angle, I think that that changes the whole dynamic of the way that you make music, and it'll change the way you practice. And when you approach a piece of music that way, I think you're much quicker to get to the root of it.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Mm-hmm. The process-oriented versus outcome-oriented. You focus on why you're doing it and how it all works together.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Right. And then that informs the outcome, I think. It isn't to say that one needs to be completely embroiled in the process constantly. We can get a little bit stuck with that. One of the big challenges in music is that so much of what we do is criticizing ourselves. We sit in the practice room, and we criticize.
And eventually, you have to put that on stage, and all you've been doing is criticizing it the entire time. And so how do you then turn around and put out a performance after you've been picking it apart forever? It's not as if it's ever done. You don't say, OK, now, this piece is-- I've got it.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: This is it.
JOHN MACFARLANE: This is it. It's time for me to show the world this grandeur. It doesn't really work like that. It is a continuing process. But at the same time, to be able to switch on that duality between being critical of yourself and then also having the confidence to put it on stage. I think that's a real struggle for younger musicians, especially. And that doesn't really go away, as much as you get better at dealing with it.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. Hope for the young musicians out there who are struggling through the two aspects of that.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Right.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I just can't imagine practicing, and constantly saying, OK, this isn't right. Do this, fix this, fix that, fix this. And putting on the show. And whether or not you feel like you're ready, this is the outcome.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah, that's the outcome. I think the other thing for musicians is that, by and large, when we're still in school-- except for folks that are particularly prodigious-- we are almost always learning the hardest piece we've ever played, or the most challenging thing we've done, as we're going. And that stops being true, by definition, in the industry.
So the hardest pieces that you play, you tend to have played in school. And so then, when you're on the other side of it, and you're actually performing in public, it's quite often that you're going back to something that is very much in your wheelhouse. You don't feel that it's an extreme stretch to be able to play a piece well.
When you're still studying at school-- I mean, we're always studying, right? But when you're still studying at school, you really are stretching your technical abilities pretty--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Drastically.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. Still testing what you can do, and how to make it happen. And the thing you said about challenging yourself, you may not be playing the most challenging piece that you've ever played, but you're challenging yourself daily to continually improve.
And another thing that really struck me I was how you talked about being curious. I hear that a lot in leadership. I love reading leadership books and articles, and all that stuff. And they always talk about the most successful people are curious and are constantly learning.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Right.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And it's just fun to hear how that crosses all industries, and into music, and in the various aspects of what you do.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Well, absolutely. I think one of the things, especially in terms of leadership-- so I've been doing more conducting now, in the last few years, and that's the example of much more in terms of the actual full-on leadership role, as opposed to being in the group and playing. With that, it's really about asking those kind of questions, and how to get the best out of people.
So in that sense, for the group psychology of the orchestra, and understanding the kind of things that really work for an orchestra, and how to get the-- so let me give an example.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Mm-hmm.
JOHN MACFARLANE: So just in our rehearsal that we had yesterday on Elektra, the conductor, at one point, asked if we-- he was looking for us to play quieter. And there's almost 100 people in the pit playing, and we're trying to get this very quiet sound. And the tendency, for most conductors, is to just ask for it to be quieter, or ask for it to be less.
But one of the problems with asking for that-- and that's not what he did, actually, because he's really quite good at this. So instead of asking for just be less, which gives somebody something that's a negation-- tells them to not do something-- instead, he talked about how to create the right kind of color in the sound. How to make it as transparent as possible, and as light as possible, and to try to create this-- as he said-- a gossamer kind of effect around the music.
And then if you have that active participation from people-- so then if you have 100 people trying to do that kind of sound-- all of a sudden, the whole piece becomes very quiet. And he even pointed out that this is the intent, is to get us to play quietly, but to still play with the kind of intention, instead of just less, less, less.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Mm-hmm.
JOHN MACFARLANE: It actually creates a very special, sort of misty sound that changed the whole dynamic. And I think it really will impact the performance in a very positive way. And so understanding those kind of leadership ideas does translate in music, and across all industries, obviously. That it's about giving people intent, instead of some kind of don't.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah.
JOHN MACFARLANE: We don't do well with don't.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Like positive reinforcement--
JOHN MACFARLANE: Right.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: --and what to do. Not what not to do.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah. And if you give somebody something really to do, and they feel that, and then they take ownership of it, and they play with significantly more passion. And I think it really makes a difference.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. And having a leader and a coach who's able to describe it in a way that the whole group can understand, and then create. And it's really fun hearing more about what you're doing now. And I'm really curious, being someone not in the music industry, what is your schedule like? What are all the different aspects of what you're doing now?
JOHN MACFARLANE: Well, it's very different day to day. So when I was in symphony orchestra-- so now that my main job is at the Opera House, it's very different than it was in symphonies. And actually, that was the thing that probably was the biggest change, other than you're sitting in the pit and nobody can see you, instead of being onstage.
But the main feel your day to day life that's so much different is that the opera schedule is all over the place. At the symphony, there's a much more standard schedule. Almost all major orchestras have Monday off, for instance. That's the day off. And then Tuesday, there'll be a rehearsal from 10:00 to 12:30. And then Wednesday, there will be two rehearsals, one from 10:00 to 12:30, and then another one usually from 1:30 to 4:00, something.
And that's pretty consistent. And then you have a show either on a Thursday night or on a Friday night; or a Friday afternoon, and then a Saturday night, and then a Sunday afternoon-- and that's a Sunday matinee-- and that's about it. And then you repeat that the next week with a totally different program.
In the opera, it's very different. We're running different operas concurrently. So while we are rehearsing one, there's another one that we're playing. So for instance, tomorrow, I have rehearsal on Elektra from 11:00 to 2:00, and then we're playing La boheme that evening at 7 o'clock, I think. And so then we play La boheme, and then we go home.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: OK, so interesting. So you're rehearsing and practicing one, and you're performing one that you already rehearsed?
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah. Yeah, that's how it works. So it's sort of this combination. There's usually about three of them running concurrently at the Opera House. So sometimes, while we're rehearsing one thing in one room-- for instance, in the pit-- there's another rehearsal for a different opera taking place in one of the rehearsal studios backstage. Or sometimes it's the same opera, but they're just doing the staging rehearsals in a different room, instead of on the stage itself.
So that's one part of it. But then the other is just to hold a lot of different pieces in your head at once. And I think that comes just from experience really. Or maybe it's people that gravitate towards an opera job are the type of people who want to be doing that kind of thing, and like holding on to these different works in their head at once.
What's difficult is when the next opera comes around, and then the one that you were playing previously is still in your head all the time. That's a little annoying.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Because you want to move on to the next thing, but it's still spinning.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: It's still playing.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Oh my gosh. And so you mentioned auditions, and you were like, oh, it's just a part of the audition.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Mm-hmm.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: But it seems like auditions, interviews, tryouts, it's anxiety-inducing. It could be stressful, these situations. And so I'm wondering-- you've played and performed at a number of different places and done auditions.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Right.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: What advice do you have for folks in the Northwestern Network, whether they're approaching a big interview or a big audition, how do you handle your nerves?
JOHN MACFARLANE: Your nerves are an interesting part of it. I would say that it has a lot to do with preparation, more than anything else. It's difficult to tell somebody, don't want something too much. Because where do our nerves come from? Probably from just a real desire to do well.
A big part of it is that we get these experiences of taking auditions, and we're more hyperfocused on what we're saying-- or in an interview, what you're saying. But when you're playing, it's what you hear. And you hear more. And so we all think that we audition worse than we play. We all think that we sound significantly worse, when we're you know under the spotlight of an audition.
I think it's because that magnifying glass, or maybe adrenaline, or something makes us hear every little thing too much. And so if you get yourself into that situation a lot, then you start to notice that it's great to be in that place, to be in that hyperfocused mentality. It's actually good for you, and it's good for your playing.
And if you can find a way to use that, instead of trying to push that nervous energy away and saying, no, don't get nervous, don't be that. Instead, take that energy and use it towards things that you can use towards a better performance. Instead of thinking, OK, I'm nervous, that means that my performance will be worse. Instead, you could say, I've got this extra energy and this extra focus, this can be better than it even is in the practice room. That I can actually deliver at a higher level in this than I would just sitting around my apartment.
And then the other is just realizing that the committee-- and for us, there's always a committee that decides our ultimate career fate-- that they want you to play well.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah.
JOHN MACFARLANE: And if you think of it that way, and then also not think too much about how to please them, in that sense-- it's so difficult to say, oh, am I doing what the committee wants? Am I playing it the way that they want? I think that's a trap that a lot of us can fall into.
You have to trust yourself and say, with your work, how can I play it so that I think it's beautiful? And then to bring that to them, and then, hopefully, they agree. Because, there's really nothing you can do about-- you can't make someone like it.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Right.
JOHN MACFARLANE: And so if you let that part go, I think you're much more likely to have success with that.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Right. And find a role that allows you to be successful.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Right.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: You want to fit into the role that you're hired for.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Right. And if you have a point of view that you bring, and a way of playing a piece that is not necessarily unique for the sake of being unique, but that it has a voice that means something to you, personally, I think you'll have much more success than just trying to cater everything to something that's outside of who you are.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, absolutely. The authenticity piece I hear a lot with people looking back on their careers and thinking what helped them be successful. And being who they are, not who other people want them.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Right.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Similar to what you're talking about, playing your music how you play it. And just some of these-- being curious about your music helps you be a better leader, and various things that are transferable to every industry. But hear it in a different language.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Right.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And hearing how you all talk. These are conversations you have with other musicians.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah, all the time.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And speaking of other musicians, your wife is also a violinist, correct?
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: So I'm guessing that's how you met. But please, tell me more about how you guys met.
JOHN MACFARLANE: So I was playing at a music festival down in Charleston, South Carolina in the summer. And she was the acting concertmaster of the orchestra in Charleston, the Charleston Symphony. So they're not related festivals, but they're in the same town [INAUDIBLE]-- or this festival that I was-- the Spoleto Festival.
That's a resident summer festival that takes place there. We were introduced by mutual friends.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Nice. Who knew, obviously, you had similar interests.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Well, they were all musicians, too. It's a pretty small world that we're all in.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. And you now have children?
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah, we have three kids.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And she's also a violinist.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Uh-huh.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: So I'm curious how you both make everything work, and how that impacts your career.
JOHN MACFARLANE: It's interesting. So music jobs are pretty few and far between, so you can't just run about and take big jobs, like the ones that have health care as part of them. As opposed to just freelance, which it take a long time, but you could pick up and move to a different city to do that kind of thing.
It would take a while to get completely in the city and the networks that are required for such a lifestyle, but as far as the audition process, there aren't many jobs, and they're hard to get. And so we really have to kind of go where the work is. It just so happened that a job came open here at the Lyric Opera of Chicago, so I was able to come back to Chicago to live here at Karen's.
My wife Karen is from the Chicagoland area, as well. So coming back here was pretty special, and it's actually somewhat unusual. Usually we have to travel to whatever position does open up somewhere. So having one that was close to home, for us, was great. And how to make it work, in terms of with kids and everything, practicing with little kids around is pretty difficult, I have to admit it. Especially if they're noisy ones, like mine.
But they learn rather early on that they need to try to pipe down when mommy or daddy have to practice. It's interesting. I think our kids still don't really understand that music is such a novelty profession. I have a funny story. Our oldest came with us to Iowa, where we were visiting my parents. And my dad left to go to work one morning. And Anderson says, where is pop pop's violin? Why doesn't he have it with him? He's going to work.
And we said, well, he doesn't actually play the violin. And he couldn't understand how that was possible.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, work is playing.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah. I think he was like three years old, or something. And he just couldn't understand how somebody wouldn't have a violin. Isn't that what everybody does?
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And you're like no, actually.
JOHN MACFARLANE: No, actually--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: It's hard.
JOHN MACFARLANE: It's pretty novel. Not many of us do it.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: That's very interesting. So going into you being a father, how have your identities impacted your career?
JOHN MACFARLANE: In terms of identity in music-- as I said from the beginning, I've been playing music my whole life, and so such a part of my identity is music. And I think that it's one of the big-- I don't want to say problem. Maybe it is a problem. In the music business is how important identity is to us, insofar as we start to relate our gigs to our identity.
And it's difficult to separate those. For instance, if a concert doesn't go well, it might not even have been your playing that was the problem, but it certainly wasn't your identity that was the problem. And I think that because, for musicians, we start so young and it's so wrapped up, that it does make it very difficult for any of us to hear criticism, even if it's very constructive.
You could have, for instance, a musician tell you, I think we should play this with a longer line here. Let's not break up the phrases too many times. Let's play with a nice, long soaring line. And one could pretty easily take that to mean, what are you saying, I'm not a good musician? And that I don't play with a singing line? Are you saying that I'm just some kind of robot that cuts it all up, and doesn't have any sense of the overall arching thing?
And that's not what they're saying at all, but it's so easy to take it that way, because our identity becomes so wrapped up in what we do. And I think that's one of the big difficulties of a music career, along with not knowing which criticism is necessarily valid, or which is nonsense. Sometimes there's criticism that doesn't make any sense, and then other times, there's criticism that makes sense, but there's a kernel of truth in it, that might not be completely valid.
And so being able to discern all of that through a career, I think, is difficult psychologically for people. I've seen a lot of folks have trouble with that in music, in general. And I do think it has something to do with conflating your identity with your career. Having it be just so intertwined.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. And then what is your life like when you retire from concert, performing?
JOHN MACFARLANE: Well, I think that's a real difficult one, too.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: If your identity's so wrapped up into your work.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah. And I think it's a very difficult process for most people. And especially, because it's such a physical endeavor, just naturally, as we get older, our hands don't move as quickly. But there are plenty of musicians who play really beautifully until they're much older.
But it's because of the amount of experience that they have and understanding of how the phrasing works, in order to make it beautiful without having to rely on just sheer chops, and really super fast playing. A lot of people go into teaching, and other things like that. And also you can do conducting, which is one of those things where-- I don't know of many conductors who retire.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: You just keep going.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah, you just pretty much keep going. I think you can be quite a good conductor in your 90's, it seems so.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And of the various things you've talked about, there's a lot of success that you found in your career. And I'm curious, what are some of the things you're personally most proud of?
JOHN MACFARLANE: If you were talking about just being proud of something, I'm very proud of my family, of course. I would say that, career-wise, the things that are I'm most proud of are these moments where I feel that I've made a substantial impact on someone's life that, without our interaction, they wouldn't have had this moment.
I remember early on-- at Northwestern, actually-- I was conducting a musical here. And one of the actors for the show had no musical training, but he had a very nice voice. But he couldn't read music. And I had to explain to him this one rhythm that he was having trouble with.
And I couldn't just say to him, well, dude, it's a dotted rhythm, just do it like this. I had to find another way to talk to him about music that wasn't built on these technical constructs that we use. And I found that, through that, not only did it reach him-- and he was so thankful for actually understanding it for the first time, something that somebody was telling him about music-- but that it changed my mentality of what we're trying to do.
Because all sheet music is-- all of these notes and these little dots on the page-- are all just trying to approximate what a composer is trying to say. They're not literally saying, play this note this long, this note this long. It's not a MIDI file. If you've ever heard one of those, they sound awful. That doesn't sound like music at all.
And that's the closest you can really get to what the composer's really writing. And so then to look at it from this completely different way, I was proud to be able to do that that way, and to impact someone in that way. Those kind of moments mean a lot to me, career-wise.
And then the other thing in careers that I'm proud of is getting myself out of funks. Not like bass funk, but more like sticking with something, rather than giving up on it. Music performance allows this process again and again. That you have something that seems insurmountable, as you put the music up on the stand, and you play through it.
And you're thinking, I can't possibly play that. How the heck does this work? And then to figure it out, and then it's simple, and then it's easy. And you couldn't have seen it before then, and now you see it. I would say that that's the thing that I'm proud of, is being able to go through that, even when it doesn't seem like there's light at the end of the tunnel, that it seems hopeless. And then have faith that you can find your way through to the other side of it.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. No, that's great. And you mentioned being in a funk every now and then--
JOHN MACFARLANE: Oh, yeah.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: --having some funks. What have been some of the challenges that you've faced in your, life in your career, that have really left lasting impact on you?
JOHN MACFARLANE: It's rather easy in music to get mired in a kind of fatalism about difficulties that one has. That it's such a difficult business. The easy way out is to try and explain what has happened in a way that seems truthful. So you're searching for a kind of truth. Why did this happen? Why did I get this? Why did I not get this job? Why did so-and-so get this other job? Those type of things.
And you want to find a nicely-boxed and bowed answer for why these things take place. And if you're clever enough to come up with it, then you're very proud of yourself for coming up with this very fatalistic kind of way of thinking. But it's actually not good for you. And it might be true, but it's not necessarily true.
And so if you find another way to think about these things, that you can do something about, and give you something to work towards, instead of taking, what I would say, is the easy way out-- which is through that kind of fatalism. If you can find a real way forward, I think you won't be wasting your time.
But if you're constantly worried about this fatalism, when it came when it comes to careers, I think it's a waste of your time, and it makes you sad. And I've seen it again and again in music. It's a very common problem in our industry.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: The mentality is the challenge.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah. I think the mentality is hugely difficult, because it's all pattern recognition. We were talking about this before, about how pattern recognition is so important in music. And yet, when it comes to anything to do with careers, and things like that, there might be some pattern recognition that's valid, but it's not necessarily helpful.
And so having that kind of way of thinking can slow you down, I think, instead of putting you on a path where you can continue the work. Because really, it's about that. It's about continuing this work that we do, and keeping focused in the practice room, or whatever. And keeping focused on those goals, rather than throwing your hands up in the air, which I've seen a lot.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. And I know we've talked at different times about various stories that have come out of Northwestern.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Sure.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: How has the Northwestern Network more broadly impacted your career?
JOHN MACFARLANE: When I was at Northwestern, most of my friends were actually not in the music school. I met up really quickly with bunch of good friends from Allison Hall, when I lived here. And they're my friends to this day. And my roommate from here was the best man at my wedding.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Oh, that's great.
JOHN MACFARLANE: And he's not in music. And to have that broad of a network, I think, helps a great deal. And it gives you a kind of perspective that people that go to a conservatory of music, that they don't necessarily get the same kind of networks and see the same kind of struggles that people go through in other careers, rather than be completely enmeshed in just the music side of things. So I would say it's just the huge range of interests of the people that I knew from Northwestern have made a big difference for me, in my own life.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And I always ask this question about what advice you've received that has stuck with you. And now I'm curious, what advice have you received from your non-musical friends-- or someone outside of your industry, or maybe outside of your organization, or institution, at the time-- what advice have you received from those folks that's impacted your career?
JOHN MACFARLANE: Well, it's funny you should mention that, because I let my friend know about this podcast we were doing. And I gave him a couple of those questions, actually, about advice.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Really?
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Oh, that's funny.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Just to see what he would say. Because I figured, hey, what kind of advice do you have, anyway?
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Might as well ask you now.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Might as well ask you now, since you haven't given me any. No, I'm kidding. He's been amazing through all of it.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: That's funny.
JOHN MACFARLANE: He said, do something that you love, work with people that make you happy. And that each job you take needs to be setting up the job after that, which I think was great. I want to keep him anonymous, just for now.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, we don't want to know what his next job is.
JOHN MACFARLANE: No, no, no. Don't want his current employer to know that he's searching. No, I'm kidding. But I would say that it has more to do with balancing your family life and your work, and how to keep your head up about difficulties that you face in your career.
Because nobody has every aspect of their career just going gangbusters. And if you ever do, then something else is having to give. You can move on up, but then when you do, maybe you have to move cities, and you had all these wonderful friends in this other one.
Any amount of success that we have does always have a degree of letting something else go. Every door that we open, we are sort of shutting off other possible experiences that we could have had in another place. And so it can't simply be here is success, and here is failure. I really think that it has to do with having the perspective of balance with all of that. Makes a big difference for people.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And it's been so fun, John, chatting with you about the various aspects of music, your career, the successes you've found, as well as the challenges that make the things that you're grateful for and proud of so much more special. Do you have any other advice that you'd like to share with the Northwestern Network, whether it be musicians, or folks who are out there working in a different industry in the middle of their career?
JOHN MACFARLANE: These are great questions. And In terms of musical things, I would say that the things that I've heard about were, if you keep your mind open to saying that there's not really a right and wrong, when it comes to ensemble playing-- very few people are going to make a living just playing their own part by themselves-- but you almost always have to have an orchestra to play with, or a chamber group.
And there's no such thing as right, as far as here's where you have to play, and the timing. There's wrong, and then there's together. You have to play together. And so to get outside of the mentality of there's a right way to do this, everybody else needs to conform to this. It doesn't work like that. That's the first thing, to try to escape from this idea that you have to do it right, in terms of ensemble playing.
And then in terms of careers in music, I've heard differing advice from people. Some people say, teach as much as you can. Others say, keep your teaching obligations to a minimum, because your students need you when they need you. And that can really weigh down on you when you're trying to pursue other performances.
In the orchestra world, I would say that, by and large, if you're interested in leadership positions, to stick to title chairs in orchestras. So that's assistant jobs, or associate jobs, or principal jobs. But I've also seen people who have gone on to very successful concertmaster careers who started out in the section of orchestras, as well. So I think that's, more often than not, the best way to go, from the very beginning, to try to be in a position of some title, as they say.
And in terms of just in general, I did hear a very interesting piece of advice once, which was that you shouldn't worry about getting your foot in the door, because then you'll forever be the guy who's putting his foot in doors. Which I thought was hilarious. And I don't know if it's true, but I love the idea it.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Interesting.
JOHN MACFARLANE: He said you should wait. Just let someone invite you through the door. Don't constantly put your foot in doors. I thought there was something amazing--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Be invited into the door.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yeah. He was Italian, so maybe it was a little bit lost in translation. But it's a wonderful concept. I don't know if it's true, but there is something about that. You have to be hungry for the work, but at the same time, to have it be just so obvious that you should be let in, rather than--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Having the patience to yeah to have someone want you.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Right. And I think that that helps. And then on the other side of it, with that, there's other ways of success in music. It doesn't have to be, for instance, getting invited to the prom. You can also make your own. And I think that that is becoming increasingly-- this might be a separate discussion-- but this is becoming increasingly important in our industry, and probably everywhere.
Which is that there's real opportunity for new ensembles to make a large impact, where our storied institutions might have not the ability to turn that quickly on things and engage our audiences in a different way, as some of the newer ensembles that are being created. So there's real opportunity out in the music business.
In other words, there's not only one way to do this. And that even people who-- especially, actually-- people who are in the big traditional institutions and the big orchestras, more and more, I see people that are interested in branching out and doing other things, and finding other avenues to share our music with people.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. The entrepreneurial mindset to finding your way in the industry, and making it your own.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Right. It's becoming more and more that, I think, probably in every industry.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah.
JOHN MACFARLANE: It seems like that.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Mm-hmm.
JOHN MACFARLANE: I don't know if that's mostly because of technology and the internet, or what it is that's causing such a huge upheaval with that. Music has a unique problem as a career in the modern world, in that it's technically not scalable. Especially young musicians need to understand the ramifications of going into music. Which I'm not trying to say don't do it, as advice. Some people actually do that.
But I wouldn't say don't do it, but I would say to consider that, in music, the labor is the product. And that's not really true for most industries. Where are your labor can create a product, and then you can become more efficient with that, and then you can create more of it.
But recordings are scalable, of course, and YouTube is scalable, but that's not really what we do. And what we really do is we play music lives for people to see us. And there's a limited number of people that can be in the audience, and there's a limited number of performances that we can do. And you can't really do more than that.
We're at the same level of efficiency as we were in the 1700s, 1800s. And that's almost not true for anything else. It's just a completely different world, in that sense. And so to understand what are the ramifications of that, how does that affect our business. And so to keep all of that in mind, when it comes to how to approach the problems of entrepreneurship in music, is, I think, very important.
Which brings me to plugging this--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah.
JOHN MACFARLANE: --new project that we're up to. So a collective of musicians in Chicago, we're starting a new orchestra. And it's a collective, insofar as there's no conductor. And it's a chamber orchestra. This is a new way of approaching what we're doing in music, especially in Chicago.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. You have that entrepreneurial mindset to go out there and make it happen, because you are one of the people to bring this all together.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Yes.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, which is awesome. The leadership. It's interesting seeing how your leadership abilities-- you started in a leadership role at 22, and now you're starting your own orchestra into your career, which is just really fun to hear and see how your career has evolved to where it is today.
Like you were saying throughout our conversation, you say, oh, yes, us musicians, we talk about this all the time. You're having these conversations to see what's going on in your industry, and adapting to where music is going.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Right. And so much of that is weighed against what's happening with everybody's careers. Are they settled in one spot? Do they have the one big gig that is giving them the opportunity to do other things? Are they piecing together a huge amount of different things, and different concerts in different cities? Are they flying constantly? There's so much that you have to balance with all of that, in order to create a new kind of ensemble, of course.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. This is so exciting. And I'm so glad that you shared it, and that you shared so many great insights throughout our conversation, for musicians, but also for alumni who are in any industry. With how to handle nerves, and from someone in such a anxiety-inducing situation like auditions, the way you described that is just so great for anyone.
And so we really appreciate you spending the time and being interviewed today. So thanks so much for being here with us today, John.
JOHN MACFARLANE: Thanks so much for having me.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CASSIE PETOSKEY: John and I had an interesting conversation about how he has been an entrepreneur in creative spaces throughout his career. I wanted to take some time to share some amazing work that is going on at Northwestern, that is helping future generations of creative entrepreneurs.
The Farley Center for Entrepreneurship and Innovation is Northwestern's academic hub for entrepreneurship. Through interdisciplinary classes, taught by entrepreneurs and industry experts, students learn the foundational skills to build and launch businesses. The center supports students' entrepreneurial aspirations in all fields, from medicine, to clean energy, to a brand new initiative in the arts and creative industries.
Go to farley.northwestern.edu today to learn more, and sign up for their monthly newsletter. To find more information about the podcast, please visit northwestern.edu/intersections. Have a great rest of your day, and go Cats.