Episode 21: Thaddeus Tukes ’16 on Creating a Major and a Lifestyle
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Transcript:
[MUSIC PLAYING] CASSIE PETOSKEY: Welcome to Northwestern Intersections, a Northwestern Network podcast where we talk to alumni about their careers. We'll hear what they've done right, what they've done wrong, and the stories behind them. I'm Cassie Petoskey with the Northwestern Alumni Association Career Advancement Team and today I'm speaking with Thaddeus Tukes. Thaddeus may have only graduated from Northwestern a few years ago, but he is already a very successful vibraphone player and teacher in the Chicago-land area. Thaddeus, thanks so much for being here with us today.
THADDEUS TUKES: Thank you for having me.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Excellent, and I'm so excited to chat with you about your career knowing that you're recent alum and you've gotten some really cool experience over the last few years since graduating. And I'd love to start with what your first job was.
THADDEUS TUKES: Wow, I think that's not necessarily challenging to answer but different because pretty much when I graduated and was transitioning into real life as I say, I was focused on performing. The thing is I can't say that that's like my first job because I've been performing you know I performed in high school, I performed all throughout college professionally during my time at Northwestern. In addition to performing, I'm a teacher, which is amazing. And I guess I would have to say that's my first quote job after school, teaching music part time and it's perfect because it complements my performance schedule very well. The institutions with which I work have been very accommodating and understanding that I still am a professional performing musician.
I teach general music to preschool through eighth grade. So I have a--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Wide range.
THADDEUS TUKES: You know at 9 o'clock in the morning is just hugging on me and loving on me, which is amazing like you need that in life. And then I teach private lessons for high schoolers at Whitney Young actually which is my alma mater.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Oh cool.
THADDEUS TUKES: As well as Kenwood Academy.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: OK, so what's that like teaching at your alma mater and going back with a totally different perspective?
THADDEUS TUKES: Well we're just getting started. The school year hasn't started yet so it's more so right now still making sure the curriculum is in place and I have the appropriate students. But it is a cool perspective because I graduated high school six years ago. So it's still close enough to me where I can curate and experience for them based off of my very recent experience at that school at a school where the culture hasn't shifted a lot and really the major shifts in the culture happen as a result of my class and like my generation of students that were there who were very arts oriented and determined to create new art spaces and opportunities for the students at the school, including us.
For example, when I was a junior in high school, I suggested to my class we were taking this ethnic studies class with Ms. [? Swo, ?] shout out to [? Ms. Swo. ?] But it was a really cool class because one, in public education you don't see a lot of classes that are geared towards cultural studies that aren't like history classes. It was based on the intersection of black, Asian, and Latino cultures in America in a current context like only kind of starting from the 60s and moving forward, which was really amazing. But as part of that, we had a long chapter on the study of hip hop like hip hop as a culture, not just music but dance, and graffiti, and MC, like all of the aspects that make up hip hop. And I was so inspired that I as the school if they will let us put on a hip hop expo.
And so that spring, me and a few other friends organized and we put on Whitney Young Spurs Hip Hop Expo. Fun fact, that was the first time I think Chance the Rapper performed at our school because I booked him for that show. But we will talk about that later.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Amazing.
THADDEUS TUKES: But the cool thing is that four years later my sister also went to Whitney Young. Now the Hip Hop Expo has become the African-American culture and arts exhibit that they have every year my sister in her senior year she was the curator for it. So it's like to be able to see the seed I planted grow not only for other students but someone as close as my own family and to see how it's gone in just four years, it's amazing to be back at Whitney Young.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, no I love hearing this history and I am so intrigued by this class that you got to take in high school. I mean this sounds like not your typical high school course.
THADDEUS TUKES: That might have been the first year that they offered that class when I think about it. Whitney Young is a really cool school in that I think because it does perform so well and students come out either going to college or just well equipped to handle life, they also focus on creating classes that are really going to have long lasting changes on those students. You know we have a lot of the standard math, science, reading, et cetera, but then you also have classes like ethnic studies or even philosophy. But the philosophy class is taught as if it's like a college course.
Like my senior year philosophy class like changed my life because I was exposed to like Siddhartha or Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, like these really amazing books that I wouldn't have been otherwise and that I also haven't heard of like students at a lot of other schools you know have had that experience.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Right.
THADDEUS TUKES: I feel very fortunate with that.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: It's so interesting hearing you talk about how you took this class and then you developed this hip hop expo. You had this idea to develop this thing out of nothing right? A brand new thing. I'm curious how you think your high school experience then influenced your college experience because we were just talking last week about how you developed your own major.
THADDEUS TUKES: Right.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Tell me a little bit more about how you went about that.
THADDEUS TUKES: I always say that the work I did at Northwestern largely came from the fact that I had a musical community in high school that I didn't have in college. So I don't know if it was like just the time period that I was there but when I was in high school, a lot of people around me were very actively making art, very actively pursuing art as a professional career. So we were always looking for opportunities to play music or to have our art showcase. We built that community together. And I came to Northwestern and there kind of was an artist's community, not really one that I felt was based on collaboration which I felt was kind of the cornerstone of the arts community is that I am a part of that are flourishing.
So when I got here, I was like well, this is a space that I know can't exist because it does exist. So let's see if we can do it here. When I got to college, I tell my friends all the time, I was on a mission of like college is going to be a social experiment to see can I really create this community and create it in a way where it like shifts the culture for the students, and not only affects how they interact in terms of arts, but just how they communicate with each other and have a basic understanding of each other.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I am just amazed by your mindset coming into college and transforming the culture of the community to have that type of perspective so young. It just seems like I'm already getting wisdom beyond your years. I love it. So yeah you wanted to shift the culture when you came in.
THADDEUS TUKES: I wanted to. Now in terms of my major, that had a little less to do with shifting the culture more than it did providing access. So I play the vibraphone, most people call it the vibes, so that might be easier.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: The vibes, got I got it.
THADDEUS TUKES: It's funny, I tell people I play the vibes and they think I'm just like joking with them and I'm like no it's really an instrument like it's called the vibes. But that worked out because that's a very rare instrument, I'm like uniquely exceptional at it, and I think Northwestern saw an opportunity of we can really cultivate this young mind to reach his full potential, which I am forever grateful that they had that vision. Because there were other schools and even music conservatories that I applied to that literally say you are good enough to come here, but we don't have a teacher for you or we don't know how are we going to get your instrument.
Northwestern, Mr. [? Goins ?] called me and basically said this is the case but we can make this work out for you if you're willing to work with us. And if you tell me you're willing to work with me, you know--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: It's like a whole--
THADDEUS TUKES: Whole world open. And so the beautiful thing about that is that I was given the resources through the music school and other places but definitely through the music school to kind of make any idea I had come to fruition, whether that was with our band Syndicate, which won Dillo Day Battle of the Bands for three years in a row.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Wow, is that like historical? I feel like that's one of those things how do you have a band that wins that frequently?
THADDEUS TUKES: You know what I'm saying? I would say that every year that I competed in Dillo Day Battle of the Bands I was part of the winning band. So that's like very exciting.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: That's awesome.
THADDEUS TUKES: Or on the flip side I had a jazz and poetry night one time that was supported by the music school and we partnered with a poetry group on campus. We came together and it was called the New Storytellers. And it was jazz and poetry and we had support from the music school to do that. And I think part of that comes from their willingness from the beginning to work with me and build this major and build these ideas that I had so much so that they were like, oh, this kid Thaddeus is doing stuff. We're going to help how we can. I think they do that with all the students that have ideas that they want to really execute.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And the talent behind those ideas.
THADDEUS TUKES: And the team, not only the individual talent. But in my case like I said I was playing with bands or working with groups all around campus so they knew that I also had a team of people who were dedicated to executing.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: The community behind you and the vibes. Tell me more about this instrument. And it sounds like so unique.
THADDEUS TUKES: It is. The vibes are uniquely American in that they only really gained national prominence through jazz music in America. Lionel Hampton is the one that inspired me to play the vibes. He has a song, "Fly Home". Basically I was at my great grandmother's house snooping through her stuff as a little kid because I was always a very curious kid or curious cat. And I found the Fly home album by Lionel Hampton and I just put it in her CD player and I fell in love. And I found that the only reason I played is because it was a guy in a bow tie holding out it's a vibraphone. I was like, oh, this looks cool. But when I got there I studied with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra has a program called the Percussion Scholarship Group.
Basically you apply to it in third or fourth grade, you get accepted, and you get weekly free lessons from a member of the CSO or the Grant Park Orchestra. They're a husband and wife duo, Mrs. Dash and Mr. [? Waddell. ?] And then you also have group percussion lessons. So percussion ensemble every weekend or every other weekend. Alumni from that program, for example, one of them is now in the New World Symphony in Florida, another one is in the Detroit Symphony Orchestra. So it is an amazing program but once I got to about middle school, it was one of those things where I loved the program, but I don't love the music. And it was a very classical program. And I love classical music but it didn't allow me the freedom of expression.
And I would find myself in a percussion ensemble and I'm supposed to play these notes, but I just mix the notes up a little bit because I thought it sounded better you know. And like in that context you can't really get away with that. But I also have recently discovered jazz at that time. Like that was about the time I discovered the Lionel Hampton album and all that. So that's when a paradigm shift happened for me.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: When you found jazz?
THADDEUS TUKES: When I found jazz. The reason I got into music is because at the age of four I was writing songs and like banging on my grandmother's piano. So my parents eventually put me into piano lessons which lead to percussion lessons and other things. But I think jazz was really where it was kind of like, oh, this is what I've been looking for all along.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Now that we've heard more about his passion for the vibraphone, here's a recording of that as playing the vibes. Let's take a listen.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
So you are an exceptional musician.
THADDEUS TUKES: I would like to think so.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I've heard plenty of stories you're an exceptional musician. And so now I'm curious, how has that been for you to move from being a student performing professionally and now being a professional performing as this is your career? What is the mindset, what were some of the challenges of the two different times in your life?
THADDEUS TUKES: I think the biggest challenge for me was just realizing that I had always been a professional. I think a lot of times when you're a student and when you're younger, people kind of try to keep you there. Like you're a student so we shouldn't pay you as much or you don't have as much, you're not as valid in this space, or you don't have the years of experience I've had so you can't know what you're talking about or where you are you know. Whereas when I graduated, I was like, oh, it's really not that different at all. It's just a matter of how do I see myself. So I would say to any students listening like take your selves as a professional now, not only because it helps you just with habits that you have.
I was fortunate enough where I had teachers and parents have family members who even when I didn't want to act right they weren't about to let me not act right you know? But everybody doesn't have people on their backs like that. I'm grateful for mine. But the cool thing is that a lot of those skills once I graduated and adopted the mindset of I'm a full time professional musician, they just were able to kick in because it was already there you know.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: That's pretty cool like to have experience performing before going in. Because I feel like so many people graduate college and get into a job and it's like a year before they know how to do the job. But you were doing that job. Like you said, if you're students out there, take yourself seriously like a professional right because when you graduate you know you'll have more experience of course and be better, but you're doing the same thing as professionals.
THADDEUS TUKES: You're doing the same thing. And at the end of the day, if you're going to college just to get a job, then you probably don't need to go to college because you can definitely get a job without college in most fields. However, college is like a place full of resources that I feel like as students we don't really take advantage of. And so the approach I took was I'm not here to just get a job because that's not really maximizing the resources around me. I'm here to see I have a vision, can I make this vision real and can I use the resources that Northwestern has? The cool thing about Northwestern is that it's really a microcosm of the world.
Like we don't realize that we're here but when I'm away you get a really interesting glimpse of cultural differences.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Different perspective.
THADDEUS TUKES: Different perspectives. So if you can thrive at a place like Northwest, especially like a black or brown person too specifically because that's still those are a different set of challenges here that I had to face and other students have had to face. But if you can figure some stuff out, the people that I've seen do well here are doing well in life. So I wanted to see like can I do well here? Because that means that at the end of the day, I'm going to be able to figure this out. So yeah.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And once you get out into the real world taking advantage of whatever those resources are beyond.
THADDEUS TUKES: And the hard part of that is figuring out the resources beyond. It's almost like more challenging.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: There's so much.
THADDEUS TUKES: There's so much. I tell my friends all the time, you don't really start to learn until after college. College you like get access to stuff and do start to think about things. But after college is when you really start to learn like, oh, this is how I put all of this together like this is how it makes sense. Even if you're going corporate there's still a like huge learning curve that you have to face.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And those decisions that you have to make. What is your ultimate goal? You've done so many really cool things. You're in bands, you're winning awards, all these really cool things. What is the ultimate goal for you?
THADDEUS TUKES: I do have a few plans. I can say I have a very long term vision. For me, music is an access point and it's something I love and something I will always do. But it has never been the end goal for me because it shouldn't be. I find a lot of people overstay their welcome in the music industry or they only know how to make money playing music. In some cases, it works and they have these really long careers. In other cases, it's just OK, have a seat, we need somebody else. But for the next few years I'm definitely making music. In terms of long term, when I was here at Northwestern we started this creative consulting firm, it was called Rasol.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Say that one more time?
THADDEUS TUKES: Rasol. It's definitely a reference to ancient mythology. Also a reference to Sun Ra, who is like a jazz musician composer. Anyway, we started this creative consulting firm because that's where the future of music is going. That's where the future of art really is going because we're kind of moving away from the we need labels in these institutions to push us. I have a functioning recording studio at my house. I have means to market myself. It's not the same way as a label but the avenues are presenting themselves. So as we move farther down like you know in about 10, 20 years in the game, people are going to be moving farther away from labels but they're still going to need someone that's going to help them make their ideas come to life.
So that's why we started it now to get practice and we have some artists that we have worked with. At this particular moment, I'm focusing on my personal career and that's what hinges the success of the company. Because if I can do it for myself, then I actually can show you how to do it but it got to a point where I was like well I have to figure out how to do it for myself.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: You have to focus.
THADDEUS TUKES: I have to focus and make it happen. And it's happening and I cannot complain. But down the road I'm probably going to shift a little more away from performing and more into how do we empower the next generation and the next wave of artists and musicians. And you know, I did do ASG while I was here so I have a lot of ideas in terms of politics and foreign relations.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I feel like from high school when you were looking into college and now even looking into your career down the road, you are able to step back and have this perspective, to know what the challenges and the questions of the future will be. Like you're not necessarily solely focused on, OK here and now this is what I need to do. But down the road, this is what these are going to be the next questions. Is this a Northwestern thing?
THADDEUS TUKES: Maybe.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Is this a Thaddeus thing?
THADDEUS TUKES: I think so I was I always tell people, you don't know me until you meet my parents. My dad, real calm person, just really laid back. My mom is not laid back at all but it's good. It's like the best balance in the world because she's like on me all the time. When I was little even in college I was like, man, get off my back. But now I'm like oh you're just doing that because you care. So--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: So the combination.
THADDEUS TUKES: So the combination of two makes me someone who's very I'm very calm about things I try not to get too worked up because then I know that I won't be able to think clearly. But like I said I also had that parent that's always forcing me to look down the road and she's like you know you have these ideas but how are you going to make them work? You have a plan for it? Have you considered this, this, and this?
CASSIE PETOSKEY: You've got some great mentors.
THADDEUS TUKES: I've got some great people around me. Like I'd say all the time, I would be nothing without my community. If it wasn't for the people around me, this would be impossible you know. Especially as an entrepreneur because I've made that decision after school to I'm going to do this myself and figure out a way to do it. You know I needed that family support and they've been supportive the whole time. So now that I've graduated, they're like we're going to keep supporting you but you're in control now. Like it's no longer us telling you what gigs to take and we're going to support you as long as you continue to make good decisions.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Supportive but also pushing.
THADDEUS TUKES: Also definitely pushing. Supportive but not--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Trapping.
THADDEUS TUKES: Right not trapping, not trying to coddle me, but just like you need a ride to your gig? All right let us know. But you got to book the gig and like you're going to negotiate the money, which is how we should be. And it's good because also I don't have a manager. So having my family support is doing those. Like most of the things that a manager would do because I went to college and managed a band and like managed other people kind of, I know how to do those things. But just having another voice kind of talk through gigs or talk through albums or things like that, it's really nice to kind of have that support community.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I love hearing more about family influence, especially like on your career now. You know they've been so supportive of you as a person. What are some of the skills that you've taken from each that's influenced your career now?
THADDEUS TUKES: Wow there are two things I say. I say I treat my daily relationships like my dad but I teach and play like my mom. My dad is not ever going to start a problem with anybody. He's not going to argue with you, he'll tell you something if you don't want to listen, you're just not listening. Like he's not about to sit there and try to convince you of something that he probably doesn't really care about that much to begin with, which is a good thing. He's like I say he's very calm, he's very wise, he can analyze the situation and say well this is going to go this way, so I'm going to try to not add fuel to the fire.
Which is good in daily personal relationships whether that's with a venue owner where we're discussing payment or discussing how long we're going to play, like those type of skills of just staying calm and level headed and not getting too emotionally involved into things is very, very helpful. And it's not stoic, it's just emotionally aware. And I feel a lot of specifically men aren't really taught the difference. Like we're a lot of times we're taught you know you're a man, you don't show emotion, and like you're a very straight faced. And like the cool thing about my dad is like he's a man but he'll show emotion, and he'll still be a straight face with showing you emotion. And there's that balance of I can be emotionally expressive but not to the point where I'm so wrapped up in my emotions that you know I lose sight.
But I just feel like-- Beyonce, said this actually in an interview recently saying you know how do you want to have men who are, I'm misquoting her but paraphrasing, how do you expect to have grown men who are emotionally aware without teaching your boys and you're still teaching your boys, boys don't cry you know. My parents let me cry, they let me have emotions. I'm a very emotional person. Not wildly emotional but I'm very aware that like I go through a range of emotions, and in my case I embrace it because I'm a musician so it allows me to interact with my art a lot more uniquely. There was a time period in my life where I was like I'm not trying to have emotions, and that was like the worst and I was so disconnected from myself and my music.
So my dad taught me you can be sensitive and still like maintain who you are you know. Whereas my mom, she's hyper-creative, she's like a genius, always looking for new ways to do things. Even if the old way works perfectly she's still going find a new way to do things but that's cool. Because when I'm in the classroom now I'm like all over the place. I'm really energetic like my mom, I'm thinking of random tidbits, and just doing all types of crazy stuff that'll make the kids laugh or they will be like this person is just so crazy. But it's really cool because rarely do you see adults who are that carefree you know? Like my mom is a grown woman but she's just carefree, she's like I'm do what I want, I'm not hurting you by doing what I want, but if I'm the only person at the party dancing then so be it. And that's cool.
So having the mix of someone who's really calm and chill with everything but also someone who's always looking for new things and willing to stand out from the crowd if it means that they're being themselves and is not hurting anybody else, that is who I am. I will literally be at the party dancing by myself if no one else is dancing. But I can also be the person that the party that's just chilling and drinking some water and observing you know? So I think because they've affected my m it makes navigating his career a lot easier because I'm able to specifically draw on certain traits for different things.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: In different times when you need each, the calm composure, and the charismatic.
THADDEUS TUKES: And it makes me a chameleon which is like the vibes, which is why I say the vibes--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: It fits you, it fits you so well. So this is a career podcast right? We talk about careers and I just love how you're always coming back to it affects my music and my art. And I just feel like your perspective almost on your career is like a paradigm shift for our podcast listeners just thinking like this is it's not a career path, it's your music, your art, your community. Just the way you talk about it is very different from how we typically talk about career trajectory.
THADDEUS TUKES: It's one of those things where it's like one, because I'm setting my own terms, it doesn't really feel like a career path. Like career, when I hear career path I think we're going to work for this amount of time and then at a point we're going to retire and like that's it because it's a path towards a career. Whereas this is more of like a lifestyle. And I feel like if more people thought or even approached their career as like I want to build a lifestyle, it might even change how they interact with the work that they do. For me, it was just like I have too many friends that are like going to jobs that they hate. And I'm like come on, we're like 24, 25. There's no reason that you have to be working a job. You don't even have kids. Like I understand like OK you have a family you have to take care of so you have to have their job.
But a lot of them don't have kids and they don't have a family and they've just like settled into this job that they hate but they're not really believing in themselves enough to really go for what they want. I can't do that. One, because it's already difficult for me to have somebody like standing over my shoulder telling me what to do all day. But also I'm just a really creative person, I know I have a lot of ideas that I want to contribute to the world. And I don't want it to be a career path, I want it to be something whereas like I enjoy this and because I enjoy this I can find ways to make money. Because I feel like when you live your life just trying to make money, at the end of your life you're not going to be very happy with what you did.
You're just going to realize you made a lot of stuff that you're about to leave behind but you don't have any memories. I want memories you know, I want to live a life fulfilled. And if in five years, it just all crashes and burn, cool, I have this Northwestern degree and I'll just go get a job you know but not yet. It's too soon.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I love hearing your perspective, especially being a recent alumnus. I mean this is just such an interesting perspective. I'm so glad that we can feature it on the career podcast because the way you describe it being a lifestyle versus a career path, I love. And oftentimes alumni come back to the NAA for resources when looking to make a career change. They're so frequently people get into a job and they do it and then they realize, wait, what do I enjoy doing? And they want to find a lifestyle that fits what their passions are. And to be able to have a conversation with someone who graduated 2 and 1/2 years ago, not even, about a lifestyle I just think it's a great perspective.
THADDEUS TUKES: The cool thing though I think about me in terms of Northwester is that the head of the jazz department is a professional musician. So I had an example of somebody who's touring the world with jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra, but also is the head of a jazz department and will come in and give master classes or teach whatever class. So I think not only did I have that parental support of like you can do whatever you want to do, and then I was put in an environment that gave me the resources to do it, I also had an example of someone who was doing it. So it's like I actually see how I can make this happen for real.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, and coming back to that Northwestern connection, I feel like we've had interesting conversations leading up to this interview about how the Northwestern network has impacted your career and how that's changed over time. Like what you thought the Northwestern network was going to mean for you when you graduated to what it is now and I wonder if we can talk through some of those different you know the impact that has had on you.
THADDEUS TUKES: I think the coolest part about the Northwestern connection that was unexpected is that Northwestern alumni are very, very supportive and willing to give you opportunities in real life, whether that means you just happen to come into contact with them. Like for example as I mentioned to you when I was working with the International Music Foundation, my main point of contact was this guy Carlo who I had classes with at Northwestern, like that was amazing. Or in my specific case because I was so integral in the We Will campaign, I also know a lot of the board of trustees and donors. So I'll be performing some place and somebody will come up to me and like, oh, I met you at Northwestern for We Will. I'm having a private birthday party that I'm looking for entertainment for, are you available?
Like that has happened a number of times. So I think because I'm in Chicago, that Northwestern connection is just always around whether I notice it or not because usually someone around either graduated Northwestern or is married to somebody that graduated Northwestern. I'm interested to see how I interact with the network as I go to different cities. I think it'd be cool for me like I said because of We Will so I'm already connected with the alumni chapter in DC, and in LA, and San Francisco, and a few different places because of that. Because my Northwestern experience was so unique I think I have a little more access than I normally would have. But in general, it's really cool to know that anywhere I go if there is a Northwestern person, they'll at least take a few minutes to talk to me, and at best case they'll be trying to hire me.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I love the real specific example of jobs that you've gotten and things like that through the connections. That's really cool. OK, so now I'm really curious about what you're most proud of because you've done some extremely cool things throughout your career, this lifestyle, I should say that you're developing. So what you're most proud of and what you would think your parents would say they're most proud of you for.
THADDEUS TUKES: I'm most proud of being a teacher I'll be honest. Because performing is great and it's definitely my passion and my heart. But when you teach you really see the impact that you're having on the future. I literally have a bunch of kids that live their week to see me because I'm like the only black man they see throughout the week or one of two and it's like an all black school students you know what I mean? So I was like I look like them, and they can identify with me, and I'm very unique in that setting. And because they're so excited to see me, they're excited to learn and just be a part of whatever I have set out for the class. But from the beginning of the year to the end of the year, I saw improvement in their writing skills, and in their math skills, and I'm hearing that their test scores were improving.
So now I can actually have that impact on somebody else so that it won't just be one of me next time, it might be ten of me that are doing the things that I'm doing. Like then I feel like I'm really having long term impact. Because it's one thing to inspire, it's another thing to really give somebody those foundational building blocks. And I'm teaching students who a lot of which have dreamed of being performers their whole life because you know that's the environment they're in. So if I can not only help cultivate your skills but also teach you how to make that happen for yourself, that's probably what I'm most proud of.
For my parents, they always say I make them proud just being who I am. I would probably say graduating Northwestern was definitely in the top greatest moments that they've had just because neither one of them are college graduates. Even though one of them spent some time in college, neither of them graduate. So our whole lives as a child was whatever you do, you're going to college and hopefully it's paid for. And both of those were essentially met so they're probably just glad that I graduated and to see that their years of taking me to lessons isn't wasted that I'm actually making it happen for myself.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: That's awesome. I also have parents who are always they're like we're proud of you. Like for what? I think that's just like their way of saying goodbye, we're proud of you. See you like in two weeks.
THADDEUS TUKES: Like I appreciate it though because there's not a lot of people in the world that will tell you that they're proud of you. So it's nice to have your parents remind you you're doing something good.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, yeah, definitely especially as you're trying to find your way in these different areas and to know that you're succeeding as you go. Like you said, you don't have this ultimate goal. Every bit of these things as playing into success for you. Yeah, and kind of taking a 180, career missteps. Have there been any experiences that have really left a lasting impact on your perspective in your career?
THADDEUS TUKES: I think I've been really fortunate. A lot of general I would say missteps that people make as young musicians and young professionals I learned in high school or in college, and like I said, Victor going to have me on gigs with him. So not only is he my teacher at school, he he's seeing me in the professional space and is still a teacher even in those professional spaces. Like this is what you do on this gig teaching me how to play with the band, but not as a soloist just as another member of the band. Or do I have all my music? Is it taped? Do I have a music stand that's going to prevent the wind from coming through if we're playing outside? Did I bring clips to put on my music stand if we are playing?
Little things like that you really learn as a professional, and like I said I was fortunate enough where those things just kind of were already in my head as a professional so I didn't have as many of those. I definitely faced challenges as a professional musician and one just branding. People always kind of want you to be what they want you to be instead of what you want to do. Also just understanding what the vibes are and like this is a really unique instrument that has to be treated as such you know. And advertising, it's almost like running a political campaign, one because I'm in Chicago, which is such a big city. And two because I'm not going through the traditional routes of signing to a record label or anything else.
I really am out here myself handing out flyers and posting flyers around the city. Like people have mentioned that they've seen flyers from my shows and I'm like that was me like personally. Exactly, exactly. So those are definitely been challenges. I think the greatest and worst thing was coming to Northwestern because it was great in that like resources, resources, resources, opportunities, knowledge, information. Flip side is that I'm not out there putting flyers and doing shows all the time. I think it is starting to level out as they say you know. So the amount of time it would have taken me to do without college is significantly less with college and therefore I would recommend even if you want to pursue music professionally you should still go to school.
But don't go to school with the mentality of I'm just doing this to--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Check off that box.
THADDEUS TUKES: To check off that box. Or I'm just here to study music. Like the reason it worked for me is because I spent most of my time like not like learning the business and learning how to advertise learning how to host events. For example, while I was a student, we used to host house parties where my band would performing like when they were people of age we would have drinks too. So even something as small as that we have to make sure we are following space capacity limits in the house. We have to make sure the band is fed and they have things that they need and the instruments are here and the instruments aren't in the way of other people that are going to knock. Like little things like that like you don't think are helping. As a professional, I can walk into a venue where I'm like, OK, they'll seat this many people.
If I wanted to be-- for example I have a yearly Valentine's Day show at this place called Room 43 which is hosted by the Hyde Park Jazz Society. So they let me, for that, they let me come in and essentially do whatever I want. So I've had last year I had like candies on the table, we had people taking pictures with instant camera as they walked in but I had to set up a little backdrop for them. I had live art so I had to prearrange with my artist friends to paint it and then get there. Things that you learn in college that you don't realize you're learning pay off as a professional, or at least in my industry.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah I like how you take the perspective of challenges that you've faced and then overcome in different ways from the skills and experiences at Northwestern. I've heard that before too where I like college, high school, college is a safe space fail, and to make those mistakes so that when you get into the professional world you're been there done that.
THADDEUS TUKES: And I failed a lot in college it was a lot of-- maybe a class or two to think when I think about it. Maybe not failed a class.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I would doubt it.
THADDEUS TUKES: I doubt it but struggled some classes for sure. But I also failed socially sometimes, I failed with events that we wanted to do that we thought were going to be really big and weren't big at all. Like when I was on ASG, the amount of time where I made proposals was and I got shot down. Like you know failure is good. People at Northwestern are so scared of failing, it's like why we're so anxious all the time because we're so scared of like if we don't do this right somebody else is going to do it. But we have to remember that whether you believe in God or a higher power or not, either way it means that you are where you are for a reason and you get the things that you are supposed to have for a reason and you don't get things for a reason. So this idea that someone else can take your opportunity is kind of fallacious.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: It's not about them.
THADDEUS TUKES: It's not about them, it's about you maximizing who you are. And if you don't get it, then that means that it just wasn't for you but it doesn't make you any less of a good student or intelligent person. And once I realize that like that's what the student culture was, then I had to shift my mind to be like OK, no I'm not going to feed into that. I'm just trying to be the best person that I can be and whatever will come my way as a result of that will and you can live your best life and we don't have to compete and still both do what--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Life lessons I feel like coming out of this conversation around this career. I think that's a really great perspective and it seems like you've had a lot of really cool and impactful mentors and people in your life. I'm wondering if there's been any advice that you've received that's really stuck with you throughout.
THADDEUS TUKES: The best advice I will never forget this. [? Victor Goins, ?] we were on the phone one day because me and him when I was in college I would just call him even when we weren't in class when I had questions about stuff and he was kind enough to answer them. But the one thing he said is life is about the choices you make. And I was like, yeah of course life is about the choices you make, whatever. But now I'm like no life is really about the choices you make. People, you can either let life happen to you or you can make life happen for you. And a lot of people are very complicit in letting life happen to them and they're saying well this happened to me so that's why I reacted this way or I didn't have this as a child and that's why I am the person I am today when really you can choose to do something differently even if you're history or environment or other things are saying you should work this way.
And once I really internalized, and this was a recent thing too, I really, really internalized that life is about the decisions you make, then I was like I'm just make decision to only put out positivity into the world. At least try my best you know, like try my best to only put out positive things about myself, about other people. Like my friends now I just compliment them because like everybody wants to hear something good about themselves and like it might make your day you might have been having a bad day. But it's worked for me because once I made the choice to only make good choices, everything else has been like falling into place and coming to me in a way like you know as I say the vibes have set in. So if it wasn't for that point of advice, I would probably still be letting life happen to me and now I'm making life happen for me and whatever kind of comes.
Just look at the-- it's about the perspective and I just choose the positive perspective.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, I like that a lot make life happen for you. I feel like even in this interview with me interviewing you about careers right and like with Northwestern and we have an idea of career paths and career trajectory, you're still making this interview happen for you. It's like a shift with how you answer the questions and your perspective and I love it. I think it's great.
THADDEUS TUKES: Well thank you.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: It's a great perspective to bring in. And OK so now I have a list of totally random questions and I want you to just answer off top of your head, don't think too much. In another life, what would you want to do or be?
THADDEUS TUKES: In another life what would I want to do or be? Probably the President.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Well if you run, I'll vote for you. And I bet you have a lot of listeners that would too.
THADDEUS TUKES: Well thank you.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I mean even just from hearing you talk about community in this conversation around arts, and music, and food even now bringing in food is a huge aspect of community. I mean that's--
THADDEUS TUKES: I'm on a plan.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: A community I would want to be a part of.
THADDEUS TUKES: I got a plan.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I like it. What is the funniest thing that has happened to you recently?
THADDEUS TUKES: Probably leaving parts of my vibraphone at home. I've got to admit, once I figured it out, once we saw that I was like, this is hilarious, what are the odds that this will happen?
CASSIE PETOSKEY: When was the last time you did that?
THADDEUS TUKES: Exactly when was the last time. Probably not since high school, oh my gosh in high school my band director used to be so mad at me. I would leave stuff all, we would get to the gig, and like I was also playing drums back then too so it's just way more pieces. So we get to the gig and I would have all the cymbals and no cymbal stands or like I would have most of the drums and not all of them. He would be like come on Thaddeus, you are so smart, like how did you-- like you were so smart and you still forgot but that's OK. It worked out, it worked out.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: It all worked out. And if someone gave you a million dollar grant right now to use on something that makes the world better, how would you use that money?
THADDEUS TUKES: I probably will buy land and then probably turn half of it into sustainable urban gardening. And the other half will probably have affordable housing and then businesses like restaurants, and retail, like things that the community needs. Because a lot of things in Chicago are like very strategic and you can tell that it's city planning almost where certain places don't have resources that they need because the land is there and the opportunity is there and people's willingness to work is there, it's just they're not supported. In an individual community as we would love for the people of the community to have it on their own will to make the community better or like we need a garden so we're going to build a garden, but people have to feed their families and like take care of certain things.
But if I had a million dollars--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: That's where you'd start.
THADDEUS TUKES: That's where I would start.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And then would grow from there I'm sure.
THADDEUS TUKES: Yeah we would see.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Bigger and better. And tell me about your favorite time or place when you ran into a fellow Northwestern alumnus?
THADDEUS TUKES: I can say that most of my band members are Northwestern alum.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: So you run into them everyday.
THADDEUS TUKES: So I'm with them all the time, right. So it's like I came to school with two of my best friends, well a few of my best friends from high school. Two of them studied music with me all four years so like I'm around Northwestern people all the time and they are people that have been in my life for a long time.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah the connection runs deep.
THADDEUS TUKES: Very deep now, very, very deep.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: That's great. And if you could be any animal in the world, what animal would you be and why?
THADDEUS TUKES: A chameleon. Obviously a chameleon.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: We already even talked about it.
THADDEUS TUKES: I don't want to be something like I don't need to be in your face all the time. I want you to see me when I want you to see me and then if I don't want to be seen I want to have the freedom to just fade back you know. I think that's very important for me in terms of like celebrity because I look at it like this, when Beyonce and Jay-Z leave the house, there's somebody there all the time. When Chance leaves the house, you might know, you might not. And Chance is really famous, he's not Beyonce famous. But Chance is--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: He may be one day.
THADDEUS TUKES: Oh he will be, he will be. But like I see Chance frequently and most people wouldn't know that he even left the house. You know like he has that ability of when I want to be in your face, he's always wearing his hat if you look closely. But the cool thing is that so many people are wearing the hat where he can still blend in you know. He's very--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Smart like that.
THADDEUS TUKES: I will say, I can say this on record, watching him and then watching another friend of mine, Vic Mensa, watching them while I was in college and like watching how their careers are going and like the things that they did I like and things they did I didn't like match with me trying to build my own career. That's what I mean about having peers that were doing it while I was studying gave me a way bigger perspective because this is not only textbook stuff but also like this is how it looks in real life.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Theory and real world so you can see it.
THADDEUS TUKES: Exactly.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: That's awesome. And what do you wish you could tell yourself as you graduated from Northwestern?
THADDEUS TUKES: That everything's going to be OK.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I love that one.
THADDEUS TUKES: Because when you graduate especially as like entrepreneur and like it's so much pressure on yourself to try to keep up with your classmates. There's so much pressure on yourself to try to live up to the standards that your family may or may not have even put on you. They might be self-imposed there's so much pressure with society, especially Northwestern's like a top 10 school so people are expecting you to graduate and get these six figure jobs, which I know maybe a couple of people that got six figure jobs, not really. But you know there's so much pressure by the fact that you're a Northwestern alum to be this superhuman--
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And successful in so many different areas. Everything you do.
THADDEUS TUKES: Right off bad like you're graduating and now you're a superstar. You know and like that's not real for anyone. Like I don't know anybody that one that wasn't-- even kids that I know that came in and rich still didn't graduate with six figure jobs you know. So I think one is just releasing that pressure off of yourself like you have to meet these standards. I don't know I've been telling my friends and students a lot that we have to realize the standards only exist because we are all complicit in them existing. So as Northwestern students, we have the power to shift the paradigm and say I care about who I want to be. My role here as a student is to figure out who that is and to figure out what I like and not necessarily be here to live out somebody else's dream. Now it is kind of difficult because some people are you know their parents are not playing that, like you're going to be a doctor and you have to respect that and feel it.
But at a point, you have to live life for you. And the problem with the other way is that you start to resent people who really love you and you don't want to resent people who love you, even if they don't see what you're on, like having that resent is going to be more of a weight on you than it will be to them.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Thaddeus, so many great insights so you've come out through our conversation. I've taken serious notes. I love it. I love it all. And I wonder if you have any other advice that you want to leave for the Northwestern network before we end our conversation.
THADDEUS TUKES: Don't forget the people that you meet at Northwestern and the things that you learn. Because it's very easy to graduate Northwestern and go back to your community and live very comfortably and not worry about the world or worry about any of those challenging conversations you had in classes. But the point of us being here is so that we can take these things and learn and start conversations in our own communities and start to shift the paradigm in our own communities. And if we're not doing that, then we're failing Northwestern more so than we're failing anything else. But we're also failing ourselves because now we have access to this information and this opportunity and we're choosing to be selfish, and that's not really would anybody you would have you to do.
So anybody who's in a class if they have those black kids in the corner that seem mad all the time, find out why they're mad, that might be for a reason. And you might be complicit in that. Or if you are one of the black students that is in class saying you're mad, it's OK to let your voice be heard. It's OK to be yourself. Like this is like we said earlier, this is a place where you can fail and it's OK. Like the worst that's going to happen is you might lose a couple of friends. And when you graduate you really lose most of those friends anyway.
Like I'm fortunate like I said I went to school with people and then another group of friends I had were just so close that I don't think anything is going to be able to break us apart. But generally, most of the people I've talked to in college like I don't talk to now. So if that's all I'm worried about, you might run into them later but you all will have grown and like we're all smart people and we realize that people have to grow. But be yourself and take what you learn here home, and change your community because that's really your job.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I love it. I mean you're two years out and we've seen this perspective from you and what is it going to be like down the road?
THADDEUS TUKES: I'm excited and thank you all for having me. It's really an honor, especially being so young to be identify as an alumni that has like something to say. Like this is amazing, especially at only 24. So I'm forever grateful to Northwestern and the people at Northwestern for everything.
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CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah and Thaddeus thank you so much for joining us and for sharing all these great insights with us today. We really appreciate it.
THADDEUS TUKES: Absolutely.
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CASSIE PETOSKEY: Thank you for tuning into today's episode of Northwestern Intersections. To find more information about the podcast, please visit Northwestern.edu/Intersections. Have a great rest of your day and go Cats.