Episode 26: Emily Farr ’03 on Launching Her Own Firm and Nonprofit
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Transcript:
[UPBEAT MUSIC] CASSIE PETOSKEY: Welcome to Northwestern Intersections, a Northwestern network podcast where we talk to alumni about their careers. We'll hear what they've done right, what they've done wrong, and the stories behind both. I'm Cassie Petoskey with Northwestern Alumni Association Career Advancement Team. In coordination with the celebrations of homecoming and reunion weekend from October 11th through the 14th, we're interviewing reunion-year alumni who have been involved with their reunion committees. Homecoming and reunion weekend are cherished traditions where alumni can share a toast to the past and a toast to the future. It is a time to come home to Evanston to celebrate, reconnect with classmates, and create new memories.
Emily Farr is a working mom, the founder of Myra: Chicago's All-Women Speakers Bureau, and a founding partner at Farr & Farr, LLC, where she heads the firm's employment and litigation practices. Emily, thanks so much for being here with us today.
EMILY FARR: Thank you for having me, Cassie.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Excellent, and we're so excited to hear what you're doing now with Myra and Farr & Farr. But before we get into that, we like to start our episodes with what was your first job?
EMILY FARR: My very first job was at Tony Roma's as a hostess. This is Hilton Head's place for ribs. It was a wonderful experience. And I recommend that anybody who is interested in client service work in food and beverage at some point.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, and so you then went on to go to Northwestern for school. What was your first professional job out of Northwestern?
EMILY FARR: First professional job was for the Chicago Children's Choir. When I was at Northwestern, I was interested, at the time, in public policy and fundraising. I had run north Northwestern's dance marathon. I was on exec board for three years and my senior year executive co-chair. So I was looking for a way to dive into that nonprofit scene. And my very first position was with the Chicago Children's Choir.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Excellent. And what type of work did you do for them?
EMILY FARR: I helped them with fundraising. And it was a really neat organization to get to know because, to this day, they do excellent performances and really help a lot of kids in the process. And I was not familiar with them. We were also in the Chicago Cultural Center, which if you've ever been, is a beautiful building open to the public with beautiful mosaics down on Michigan Avenue.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: That must have been a great experience right out of school. And I know you later went on to law school. Where was the transition there, and how did you make that decision to go back to school?
EMILY FARR: I will give my husband a little bit of credit for this one. So we met my senior year at Northwestern at a bar. I was of age, for anyone who wondered. And while we were dating I was interested in getting this master's in public policy. I had been a political science major. That's the way I thought my career was headed. At the time, he was studying for the LSAT as well as the GMAT with the goal to get a JD/MBA.
And I started practicing these logic games, which I don't know if you're familiar with, but they're really fun.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, I actually took the LSAT as well. Never went on to law school, but loved logic games.
EMILY FARR: Me too. I love logic games, and I seemed to be pretty good at them. And clearly, they have nothing to do with being a lawyer, but I didn't know that at the time. So it got me thinking about law school. Also, to Dave's credit, he liked football. And he took me to a Michigan football game, and I saw the campus. And you being from Ann Arbor know this, but it's a beautiful, Gothic structure-- just gorgeous.
So I got excited about the LSAT. I took it. I got excited about law school. I applied, and I went not knowing what I would do with it but knowing that it would teach me to problem solve, teach me to do logic games, I guess.
[BOTH CHUCKLE]
And teach me to be an advocate for others who didn't have a voice, and that was my goal when I wanted to be in public policy.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, and that's really interesting that you describe that you went to law school knowing that you were going to gain all these really great skills from that program but not knowing specifically what you wanted to do down the road. And when did you figure out what your next step was going to be after law school?
EMILY FARR: I think every step I've taken, I've only figured out just before I took it because I'm pretty impulsive. If I have a decision in my brain, I move forward with it. I'm very keen to the idea of life being short. I'm reminded of it all the time. So I think that towards the end of law school, I had been in moot court-- done fairly well with my partner, who's still my friend today in law school, and felt that it was a natural fit that I speak, that I be on my feet, as we say, in the law-- in a courtroom.
So I set out to find a position at a firm where I could be a litigator. I didn't really want to be behind the scenes too much. I didn't want to do too much what we call document review. So I actually skipped our on-campus interview season as a rising to 2L, which was very unusual. And in lieu of that I went out looking for my own job. And that was the start of the litigation career.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. And now is that rare to find something in litigation right out of school? I may have a bad stereotype of what people do after law school, but I feel like they get really into the research aspect first before getting into litigation.
EMILY FARR: I think it depends. We still have, I think it's 50% or 60% of law firms in the country are solo practices or small firms. So I would think at certain law schools, in certain areas of the country that are perhaps less cosmopolitan, we probably do see a lot of people who join a solo practitioner or small firm, and they're immediately thrown into motion practice appearing in court.
But at the time, at least at a school like Michigan, it was fairly uncommon, I would say, to go to a litigation firm and actually litigate right away. Not to say people didn't go to litigation firms. They did every day. But, perhaps, they weren't getting out taking their own depositions, appearing in court too early on, at least not speaking in court. And that's why I set my sights on finding a smaller firm within the smaller town. And we ultimately moved to Asheville, North Carolina, which is where I started my career.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, and so you were able to do that right away, getting into court. And so how valuable was that experience to you now, like learning the skills you learned then?
EMILY FARR: Incredibly, for a couple reasons. And this will be a theme, I think, throughout our interview. There is content, and there's context. And I say this all the time. Content-wise, I did learn a lot. But context was everything. I learned confidence that I could do something that perhaps other people my age or my seniority level did not think they could-- me included. So I had the experience of diving into the deep end and surviving. And I think a lot of people-- you know, you hear a lot of people talk about this. You realize that you can do these things, that these other people who you hail as geniuses or better or special-- they're perhaps not, but they're taking that leap of faith.
So I think what I learned really from it was that being a little bit uncomfortable is a good thing. It doesn't mean you're not where you're supposed to be. This whole imposter syndrome that's pretty common for all of us who have any sort of self-consciousness-- it can wreak havoc on you. But if you step back and you say, this isn't rocket science. Unless you are a rocket scientist out there, then it is rocket science. But for most of us, it's not rocket science. For lawyers it most practice areas, it's not a life-or-death situation, certainly sometimes it is, you can do it.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, definitely. I think the confidence is such a valuable skill, as you said, that's probably helped you in every single role since then. And developing that-- I'd love to pick your brain a little bit because I know we have so many alumni that come back to the Alumni Association for career advice and insights and things like that when they're making some tough decisions. And having that confidence to make those decisions and to take leaps like you have is huge and valuable. I wonder how you developed this and how you talked yourself into having this great career skill.
EMILY FARR: Thank you. Well, I can say quoting my husband once more, who's also my law firm partner, so we spend a lot of time together. He told me early on when we were dating that he'd never met someone who was so unlikely to be embarrassed, which I think was supposed to be an insult probably because I was doing a spin in the middle of a public area or high kick or something. But it is something that has propelled me forward in my career as well. I don't get embarrassed very easily.
And I think that lends itself to confidence. One of the reasons why I don't get embarrassed very easily is because I happen to believe that most people are rooting for you. So take giving a speech at a wedding-- people are so nervous. If you've ever seen the best man before his speech, he's usually in the corner drinking a lot. Or he's telling everyone he can't drink until the speech is over because he's sick to his stomach.
Generally, I pull that guy aside and I say, everyone wants to laugh. Everyone wants you to do well. They will be miserable if you don't do well. It will be awkward if you don't do well. Everyone's rooting for you. And that's generally how I feel about people. There are certainly situations where I haven't felt that way, but on the whole, I approach most things with that mindset. And it's helped me maintain that confidence, because, again, I know that there is no adversary in the room.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I like that-- just shifting your mindset a little bit and taking a step back and realizing people often have your best interest involved in their mindset as well. No, that's great. And I know that you have done a number of different things since litigation. So where did you go after litigation? You were in North Carolina getting some great experience. What was next?
EMILY FARR: So we were in North Carolina for five years. I started working in Asheville for a wonderful firm. I ended up in Charlotte working for another wonderful firm. That firm happened to be really inspiring to me because it was started by two women, and I was their first associate hired. So I was able to watch them grow a firm. They actually had years more experience than I would have had when I started my firm at my seventh year, but nonetheless, I saw them start a firm from the ground up. And it really, for me, at least, was a milestone moment where I saw some of the benefits of running your own firm and also some of the challenges, and again, how this is something that is attainable if you work hard.
My husband and I really miss Chicago. We're both not from here. But despite having wonderful friends in North Carolina and a house and certainly cheaper cost of living, we really, the entire time we were there, were interested in moving back. And particularly when we started to think about a family, we really wanted to live in the Midwest and particularly in Chicago.
So with that in mind, we started looking around. And I actually found a position at a startup. It was not a legal job. I would not call it a misstep, but it was certainly a detour for a year and a half out of the law. And while also a good experience, I found myself really missing being a counselor. I feel the number one thing you can be as a lawyer is counsel to others.
I love that the profession has confidentiality to it. I love that people can call me anytime, and whether they engage me in services or not, I'm not telling a soul. And that includes if a family member calls me, you know, I'm not going to repeat what they told me at the Thanksgiving table. So lawyers are keepers of secrets, and I take that very seriously. I find it to be a very noble profession. So I missed that element.
And that led me to the decision to start my own firm. This was when my son was 11 months old. And I knew that I wanted to go back into the law, and I also knew that I wanted my own thing. So I set out to start it-- it cost about $5,000 to start a law firm. That was my experience. Other endeavors certainly cost a lot more if you have to get a factory or workers. But I needed a laptop and a license and some office space, which I ended up using at my own home. And I started the firm. And that's where we are. I did start the firm on my own. And about four months ago my husband joined.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: That's great. And I have so many questions about the dynamic between you and your husband both being lawyers and going to school together and all that. But before getting to that, you started a firm when your son was 11 months old. How-- I mean, how did you do it? [LAUGHS] So did you sleep?
EMILY FARR: I did not sleep, and I still don't because I now have a three-and-a-half-year-old and a nearly two-year-old. But I will say this. It's a season, right? And if you look at life in seasons, you know the seasons will change. So when I started the firm, my son Calvin was 11 months old. I was pretty overwhelmed. And I think that it's important to tell people that because I think we often-- especially in this era of social media-- present everything in this glossy way that is not a reflection of reality. But I also knew that if I worked really hard and grew the firm from the ground up, my 11-month-old would be six. And his mother would have that flexibility to greet him, perhaps, when the bus showed up in front of the house.
So motivating me to start when I did was the fact that they're in daycare from 7:00 to 6:00 most days. They're starting to get the point of talking, but for a while it was they were kind of blobs, lovable blobs, but blobs. And I felt like, look, I'm not really a baby person. I'm definitely a bigger kid person, and I can't wait to be very present in their lives. But this is going to be the time when I work very, very hard to get this off the ground. I'll have employees and a book of business, and we'll move forward from there. And the firm will, hopefully, be a 5-to-10-person firm by the time they're jumping off that bus.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And now that was about four years ago, correct, when you first founded?
EMILY FARR: The firm will be three years in November.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Three years old.
EMILY FARR: Yes.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: OK, so it's been three years now that you started your law firm. How has your day-to-day change from when you were starting a business and having to deal with that aspect of your firm to today? What's changed and what's remained constant?
EMILY FARR: Sure. Well, the part that's changed the most is my intake of coffee. When you start a firm-- when you start any business, you have to meet a lot of people. I feel like networking is not the right word. It's just meeting. Networking makes it sound really complex and secretive. It's just meeting people.
So I probably took no short of 10 people a week to coffee for the first year. Coffee's cheap, better than a lunch. You can meet a lot of people. And you just have to meet people. And then you have to wait for time to pass because your network grows and grows and grows, and your clients come and go, and your former clients refer new people to you, and some of your clients have new work for you or they go into a different pursuit and need you for something else.
So I needed to lay that foundation early on. I needed to meet as many people as possible. I'm not from here. Obviously, I had my Northwestern network, which is very valuable, but I'm not from here. I had to call on my network I already had, and I had to let people know what I was doing. That's the most important thing about growing a business is you have to tell people what you do, because we're all busy, and we're not going to remember what type of law our friend who's a lawyer practices unless we've heard it 10 times.
So I would say that's the biggest thing that's changed is I do not spend as much time every week getting out there and networking. I still do it a fair amount. The part that's constant is that I am constantly learning. You have to-- whether you're a lawyer or any other profession, you have to know your craft. I spend a lot of time reading legal articles, case law that comes through, new legislation-- really anything that could impact a business. That's what I'm here for, so I want to be on top of it. And that's just a steady in my life that will hopefully always be so until I retire. [CHUCKLES]
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, and so we advise people when making a career change or in any transition of their life to do informational interviews, talk to as many people as you can, which seems like you were extremely successful at. How did you have the patience to know that these coffee meetings and this exhaustion was moving you forward?
EMILY FARR: That's a great question. I think part of it is in hindsight. I now see it has worked. A lot of it was an experiment. I knew from talking to other people-- and I would tell any listener to do the same. People are very open to help. People want to help. So whether you're trying to start your own business or you're just trying to change your career or start your career right out of school, people will usually take those informational interviews.
Now will all of them be helpful in introducing you to their entire LinkedIn network? No. But I would submit that the people who end an interview by telling you-- look through my LinkedIn Let me know you want to meet-- are probably not your most valuable contacts. They're simply telling you to look at a list. Your most valuable contacts have some idea of what makes you tick. They have some idea of where you want to go. And they might only help you out once in a blue moon when they meet that person who's a good connection, but they make those deeper connections for you. So I do think it does take a lot of patience.
But for me, I had enough of those people who were sitting down with me and saying, OK, it sounds like what you want to do is work with small businesses. And it sounds like you have a good experience because you've been a litigator and also worked for a startup, and you're personable and friendly-- happiest lawyer I've ever met. I'll introduce you to someone who I think is also looking for an employment lawyer. It was those sorts of conversations that kept me going. But anyone who gets out there knows your networking is not about checking off boxes as everyone gives you great contacts. It's simply just getting out there and, really, making friends so that people will advocate for you.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, that's a great insight talking about how to know when someone is going to be a great connection for you when they're helping to make those deeper connections. They were listening to you versus just saying, go look at my LinkedIn account. Because I think that does happen when you're networking and more recent alumni may say, I have to look at their LinkedIn, and I have to connect with someone, when that may not be their best route.
EMILY FARR: I completely agree.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, networking-- it's so interesting hearing everybody's different perspective on networking and what it means to them. And I've really enjoyed listening to lawyers, because it's an industry where you think, again, the stereotype of law-- they are in their office, and they're doing legal work. But you don't think they're out networking. And that's so much of your job, to get out and meet people.
EMILY FARR: Yes, particularly, again, because I do not expect anybody to remember I'm a lawyer, much less an employment lawyer, and then as an employment lawyer to recall if I work on the employee side or the employer side. I am a management-side or employer-side attorney, but I do not expect most people to remember that.
So it does take doing a lot of repetitive work. It also takes a lot of other types of networking, like getting out there on paper, writing articles, speaking at events, talking to people, taking leadership positions, giving back, working in volunteer capacities. That's a double-- that's a win-win there. You're giving back, and you're also meeting people outside of your normal day-to-day.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, and talking about giving back to the community-- I know you founded Myra, which is Chicago's all-women speakers bureau. And I'd love to hear more about why you started this and how it's evolved since doing so.
EMILY FARR: Excellent. Well, in April of 2016, if you're good at math, my firm was five months old. My son was about a year and a half. I was pregnant with my daughter. So I decided to start a nonprofit, which looking back, may have been a stretch. But here's why I did it. I really am not a glutton for punishment. I did it because I was looking for a speakers bureau to join.
So I typed in "all-female speakers bureau" thinking, well, I'm a woman. I run my firm. That's a niche in itself. I'm certainly interested in working with men as well, but this is a way I could perhaps distinguish myself. I find women to be very generous with their networking, so I thought this would be a great group to try to align with. I did not find what I was looking for.
So being a lawyer, I was able to just quickly put together my paper for my 501(c)(3), form a board, and start the organization on no money. But again, we put on events So we were able to have some generous sponsors and venues and co-working spaces. And we started in April of '16 at the Gwen Hotel. We had a conference room, and I think we had about 12 people show up. And we had our first event. And we've grown from there.
We probably have 300-something people on our list serve. We have about 55 speakers on our website. And our mission is twofold. We, of course, are trying to bring speaking opportunities to the women of Chicago. We are also trying to bring networking opportunities to them. So if anyone out there is listening and is dedicated to promoting women either for their employees to listen to a keynote or a workshop or a panel, check out myratalks.org. We have a fantastic variety of women of all different professions who are trying to market themselves by going out there in the community and teaching, which, I think, is one of the best ways to market yourself.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, doing really cool work, giving back to the community, and networking and speaking opportunities. And so now I know you've started two organizations-- your firm and this nonprofit. And I heard you earlier talk about the benefits and the challenges of starting something. What surprised you most on both sides of starting these two organizations?
EMILY FARR: Sure. Well, I would say the thing that was most surprising-- and this goes back to people were rooting for you-- is that people have been, on the whole, so wonderful and generous with their time and advice. We can all use advice no matter how expert we think we are. And I've just been amazed at how most people are willing to pick up the phone, have a conversation, talk to you, encourage you, come to your events.
That's been really nice to see, particularly in these times. We read a lot about people are so nasty, and I don't think that's the case, particularly in the Midwest. One of the reasons I moved back here was because I find the people very grounded and very community-oriented, perhaps because we hibernate for awhile, but I think we spend a lot more time with one another than certain regions of the country where people dispersed more for individual activities. So I found that to be really surprising in a good way.
I would say the part that surprised me the most in running both these organizations is how much you do work. I have always prided myself on being a person who is not a workaholic in the sense that I want to do very good work, but I also want to have that balance that we all read about all the time.
And I would be the last person to walk in on a Monday and say, oh, I'm so busy, because frankly, I can't stand that line. And it's tired. And I see right through it. And I think most people are trying to sound more busy than they are. However, when you work for yourself, you are busy in a different way. I may be able to go to Target in the middle of the day if I need diapers, and that is a huge benefit.
However, there hasn't been a Saturday or Sunday where I haven't worked, because I have to be present. And that may change as I grow and have employees. I hope it does. But for now, and I think probably always to some degree, I have to be the spokesperson for my firm and for Myra as well. So I don't think you get to turn it off. There's no vacation responder. There's no out-of-office. You work on vacation too. But you can also take more vacation. So it's a fluid type of thing.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, it seems like a really interesting challenge where you don't go into an office, so you think you have more flexibility. But then, you're working almost all the time because you're always on. And so how have you handled that challenge starting these organizations where you're basically always on versus being at a company working for someone else where you're able to maybe turn it off, maybe not work all the time?
EMILY FARR: Sure. Well, two Ss come to mind. The first is Shower, and the second is Schedule. So anyone who either works for themselves or works from home can probably relate to the idea that you get up in your sweats, turn on the crock-pot, put in the load of laundry, pat yourself on the back, you've made it in life.
And five hours later, you're still surfing the net. Very important, psychologically-- you know, it's like people say, you need to make your bed. I say, you need to get out of the sweats, shower, get moving. That would be the first step. I don't know if it's just the feeling of the waist band or what.
The second is schedule. So I think it's very important to schedule out every day. Now things change, so I'm not of the mindset of scheduling out a week because you'll just disappoint yourself. But certainly every morning you can take a look at your day, and try to block out time for work, for exercise, for maybe an errand, for calling somebody back, for working on your writing, for going to a coffee.
I often tell people who work out their house schedule things in chunks. If you're in the loop because you have a court appearance, schedule a coffee before and after. If you have one coffee, schedule another. But you don't need to go into the loop for one coffee if that's the only thing you have down there that day. Time is money, particularly if you're in an industry like mine where you bill by the six minutes. It's important to really block out those chunks. So that's another thing. It's just really approaching it with a lot of organization.
And I think then, you can do well. But it is not for everyone. And I have met people who have no interest in working neither for themselves nor even out of their house for someone else. They want to get into the office every day. So I have been told by people I'm just very good at it naturally, one thing I'm going at naturally. So I just-- you know, I'll take it. I'll take the complement. But I've always been pretty good at sticking with deadlines that I self-impose.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, the part of how you mentioned that some people prefer to go into an office, It's almost like there's a separation between work and life. And I know you mentioned this concept of balance. And I'm curious what that means to you when you're trying to balance the many aspects of your life and work.
EMILY FARR: Sure. So we've all read about work-life balance, and all the women listening probably roll their eyes hearing about women having it all. So I'll start off by saying that's a terrible phrase because nobody ever asks men to have it all. We do not need to have it all at the same time. And we actually probably do have it all, but we're so self-involved at what we're working on at the time, and society is telling us over and over again that we don't have it all, that we start to think maybe we don't.
So life is not about having it all at one exact moment. I do think it's about having that type of balance. But I've heard it described as not so much a balance but a seesaw, if you will. So some days, you're more of a working mom. Other days, you have a sick kid who's lying on you, sleeping. You have to handle it with a lot of flexibility. You have to get rid of all that anxiety.
You have to ask for help. That's probably my weakest area. I don't like being reliant on other people. I've always been that way. And I gravitate towards people who are very self-reliant. But it is important to ask for help, particularly when you become a parent, because we do have these quarantine days. And I'll tell you before Dave joined the firm, my husband, he traveled most weeks. And there were days where I had a trial or hearing, and my kid was sick. You have to have people who you can call on to help. And I think that's a hard thing for a lot of people. You have to swallow your pride and ask.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, that's another great insight. And I know you mentioned that men don't get asked about having it all. And I'm really curious because you and your husband are both attorneys, and now you're working together in your firm that you both found it together. How do you handle the working relationship and your husband-wife wife relationship?
EMILY FARR: Well, I joke with people that it would be very scary to have a work spouse, except it is my spouse.
[CHUCKLES]
A lot of people who start companies say, oh, my gosh. You better pick your co-founder really carefully because they're like a spouse. So I just decided to go with what works, right? Now I had started my firm under the name Ardent Law about two and a half years ago now. When we made the decision for Dave to join, we did change the name. So I had been doing this on my own for quite some time.
So I was aware of the challenges that might come into play when someone, anyone, joined me. I wasn't as nervous with Dave because I know him so well. But we had to organize ourselves, think about how we were going to run this firm and how we're going to separate our personal relationship with the professional one.
So we do have a home office. It's fairly large. It's a bedroom turned into an office. We are generally not there at the same time because he's just started with Farr & Farr. He's out networking a lot. He has a health care practice and corporate practice. So we do overlap a lot, but he is doing a lot of his own work. And then we try as hard as we can at night to not only talk about our clients and our cases.
Our kids are too young now to really care. They're thinking about Elmo or what happened at daycare. But at some point, I've heard from attorneys who are older who've been mentors to me, they will stop you and say, can you please not talk about work? And as much as I am proud that they will look at our career and hopefully say, mom and dad are lawyers, and they're professionals, and they help people and they have their own company.
I also don't want them to look back and say mom and dad were workaholics. So we're trying to be mindful of that as well, to really turn it off when we can. And if that means that one of us has to go off to the Starbucks on a Saturday while the other plays with the kids and is very present-- we do divide and conquer a lot to make that happen, rather than both of us being 50% there.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, no, that's a great insight. It's such an interesting challenge, I feel like, when you have couples who work together who then come home, because often couples will talk about work at home. But since you work together, it's like a whole other depth. It's not like, oh, I had a great meeting. It's, I met with so-and-so talking about client work, so trying to separate that. It sounds like you've had some great mentors in your life who have been able to provide some of these tidbits that help with the separation and the balance for both of you.
EMILY FARR: Absolutely. And I'll give a shout out to my Northwestern friends. My Northwestern friends are like family. They are my best friends. We get together once a year. They are about 15 really strong women. And they are so supportive, and encouraging, and complementary. And those things are important, especially if your love language, like me, is words of affirmation. And they probably know that about me. It's so important when times are tough where you don't think you're doing well enough to hear, especially early on, that people are seeing what you're doing. And they know it's scary or that you took a leap of faith or you're trying something new, but they are there for you. And they're encouraging you along the way. So I'm very grateful to my Northwestern time because of the people I met.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, that's great. And it sounds like you such a great network of friends from Northwestern. How has that group of friends or your Northwestern network, more broadly, impacted your career and your career path?
EMILY FARR: I think from an early time at Northwestern, my relationships gave me confidence-- that confidence I mentioned before where I'm never embarrassed. I found the community of Northwestern very positive and supportive. I know not everyone has that experience in college, so I'm very grateful for it. Whether it was my Theta friends-- that was the sorority I was in, Kappa Alpha Theta-- or my dance marathon friends-- I was on the exec board for three years-- I found that people were always looking out for my best interests and were very curious as to what I was doing and I was to them. And that has really helped. And particularly being back in Chicago now, there are obviously more of us here than there were in other places I've lived. So it's just always really affirming to see those people, feel like no time has flown by, that we have a relationship where we can pick up where we left off. And that's been really nice.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, in terms of the insights that you've gathered from these networks, what are some of the bits of advice that you've received throughout your career that's really stuck with you?
EMILY FARR: So have you ever heard the phrase do what you love? [BOTH CHUCKLE]
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Familiar.
EMILY FARR: Familiar. So that's my least favorite piece of advice. And it blends into my favorite piece of advice, which is just do the work. Do what you love is based on the premise that you know what you love. I believe that you know what you love once you start doing the work. If someone told me my last day Northwestern, Emily, go do what you love. I would have looked at them and said, what is that? I had to start working. And then I had to study. And then I had to go to law school, and even then I had to start working in law to know that what I do right now I actually love.
So what I find is that you need to do the work. And you need to approach that work with a lot of intention. And whether it's your favorite job or a seasonal job or something you think is just a step towards something else, or you don't even really like it, people are taking note that you are responsible and that you're reliable and you're doing the work.
So just keep doing it. I tell everyone busy is so much better than boring. Even if you don't like your job, if you sit down and you just busy yourself with it all day, you will be much happier on the way home than if you stared at the clock. That's just human nature. So the best piece of advice early on is your head down and work. And I also think that's important because while many people are privileged who went to Northwestern, many people cannot do what they love ever. And I'm lucky that my career is one that pays pretty well per hour.
But there are many loves that people have that could never be their main job, and the instruction to do what they love is impossible. They cannot make that instruction happen. So I think it's very important for people to set that sort of notion aside, to do the work, and to find, while they're working, opportunities that lead to better opportunities. Really, to always keep your eyes and ears open so that you can move from one thing to the next. There's no shame in switching jobs or even careers.
And the idea that someone has made a change from which they cannot go back I reject. I left the law for two years. I went right back into it no problem. People overestimate how important it is to be in one silo. I think Sheryl Sandberg said your career is more like a jungle gym than a ladder. And I find that to be the case.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I feel like that really resonates with me because I so often hear that being in careers, find your passion. And you can't do that without doing it-- you know, trying things, doing the work, like you said. I feel like that will really resonate with the Northwestern network. It's so simple. You have to try it before you know.
EMILY FARR: Exactly.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And you make a career change, and you come back, or you make a career change, and you're happy because you tried it and it works. Because so many people come to the Alumni Association as career changers trying to figure out and sort through is this right, how to make the leap. And it's such a great insight to do it and see.
EMILY FARR: Thanks. Well, and sometimes it really is a journey, right? I mean, it's not just reading through a menu or a catalog of professions. It's getting in professions and picking it apart. What functions of this profession do I like and which do I not? Certainly within the law, there are things that I love, things that I'm kind of lukewarm on. But I love the function of advocating, and I love writing and researching.
So I can already tell you that if I couldn't be a lawyer tomorrow, I would know there are certain careers that I would love because they involve a lot of writing and researching. I could be a novelist. I could be a journalist. I know I would like those because those skills that I like in the law apply to those professions as well. So I think really distilling-- which I'm sure you do in career advising-- the different aspects of a career and the different tools you use and skills is just as important as the title.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, and Emily, you've made a lot of really cool transitions in your career from going-- when you were in law school deciding you weren't going to go to the career fair. You're going to find your own thing. Right? That's a huge risk. And then getting into-- originally-- getting into fundraising and then going back to law. You've made a-- you've taken risks in your career that have really made your career as successful as it is from the outsider's perspective. I'm wondering from your perspective, what are some of the things you're most proud of?
EMILY FARR: Thank you. Well, I will just say-- and I really am not trying to underestimate my career because women do that a lot too. But I do always tell people that it's not as risky as it seems to try for something, particularly our Northwestern network. We all have this wonderful education. Nobody is going to take that away from us. Many of us have a support network financially or just emotionally.
It is different than someone who has no safety net. When I started my firm, my husband had a job with benefits. If the firm failed, we would be fine. I also had a law degree and an undergrad from Northwestern. So I didn't find it particularly risky, but there are things I'm really proud of. And I'd say the number one thing that I'm proud of is that I did it. Not that I've done so well it, but I made the decision to go forward and start the firm.
There is always a better time to do something. Or maybe I should say it's never a good time to do something. Particularly parents will relate to this. Was it ever an optimal time to decide to have a child? No? I have a joke that kids are like vacations. They're a lot of fun. They're really expensive, and there's no good time to take them. That is how I feel about changing careers, starting a business. You could always push it to another day.
So I am most proud that I just went for it. Again, there was a big caveat. I had a spouse who had a job. I was never going to be homeless or hungry because of this decision. But I'm glad I did it when I did, again, for the hope that as the firm grows, I'm a good example to my kids. I have more flexibility as they're older. But yeah, that was probably the biggest mental block I had to get through, was this is not a good time.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Right, because it's never going to be perfect for any of these big things, big decisions. No, that's great. And another question I always ask my guests is about career missteps or challenges that you faced throughout your career that have left a lasting impact on you and your success.
EMILY FARR: Sure. So missteps is a hard one for me because I've approached every career change or decision I've made with a lot of intention. I probably overthink it. I would say as I mentioned before that a weakness, a challenge, is asking for help. And you don't often have to if you're an individual contributor. A lot of lawyers are. But when you start a firm, you start something new, or you're just in a company and you don't know a lot, or you don't know what you don't know, it's important to ask questions. It's probably more important ask questions than to give answers.
You have to be an open book. You have to be a lifelong learner. Those are the people who become best at what they do. So that's been a challenge for me. Anybody who knows me will laugh and say, Emily would walk five miles before asking someone to pick her up if she was stranded. That's just my personality. It's not something I'm proud of. I didn't mention it earlier [CHUCKLES] for that reason. So it's been an interesting thing to get over, a humbling thing. But I do think I'm better off for delegating and for reaching out and finding mentors and partners and other people to help me. I think that's the only way I'd be able to grow as a firm and as a person.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, and to have the self-awareness that this is a challenge. A personal challenge for you is asking for help and being able to say, OK, I need to find a way to overcome it or delegate or however you want to coin it. And now you've basically turned that into one aspect that's making you successful and continuing to make you successful.
EMILY FARR: Yes, and I think that's a really good point, Cassie, that you have to-- there has to be a good amount of self-awareness this. When you're approaching your career you really have to take a deep dive into your psyche and figure out those pieces that are missing-- we all have them-- and work on them every day.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: And Emily, I know you mentioned your Northwestern friends and your lifelong network that you'll have forever from Northwestern. And you're really involved with your reunion coming up this fall. So I want to ask you what does reunion mean to you?
EMILY FARR: Reunion-- just like the five-year reunion, the 10-year reunion, this is the 15-year reunion-- for me means coming home. I mean it is not just a name for me. I feel at home at Northwestern. I always have. I applied here early decision. I walked onto campus, and I told my parents this is it. I'm applying early decision. Of course, it was the summer. But it's never changed, no matter what the season. I love Northwestern. It's the perfect size school, and it's got a wonderful culture. And it has its own thing even though it's right off the L, and you can be in a major city.
So coming back to Northwestern, even though I live five miles away, really does feel like homecoming. Farr & Farr is closing down for the day. I'm sure we'll look at our email, but we are taking the Friday off. My mom is coming in to watch my children, pick them up from daycare. And we're doing the whole Back on Campus day on Friday. We're very excited for the party on Friday night. We're excited for the game on Saturday. It's just going to be a blast, and I'm really looking forward to seeing people I haven't seen since the 10-year reunion.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, and so tell me more about how you got involved in reunions in the first place. And now you're on your reunion committee.
EMILY FARR: Yes, so I've been on the reunion committee the 5 and the 10 year as well. And I would tell anyone who hasn't been in one before, never too late. Every five years, we've got one. I got involved, I believe, when I was living in North Carolina, and I thought, is there a Northwestern club? And I ended up working with the Northwestern Club of Charlotte. It was fairly new, I think, at that time. I was on the committee for that, and I just wanted to stay involved.
I think I did some of those interviews too. I know I did, actually, because I interviewed a rising senior who ended up going to Northwestern who was a high school student in Charlotte. So I always recommend that to people too. If you want to stay involved, do some of those in-person interviews for the Alumni Relations group. And early on, I joined the leadership circle, donating monthly, which makes it much more affordable. And it makes me feel connected to the school as well.
But I can say is that I give back because I feel like Northwestern gave me a lot, not just the friends and the professors, but also the name. I mean, you don't have to walk around life proving to people that you're smart. People assume you are, and that's worth a lot, particularly when you're networking. People might take the call or open the door even if you haven't really earned it because they assume something about you. So I'm very grateful for that. And I just I'm really glad to be part of the community.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah, that's great, Emily. It's so fun to hear what people enjoy about being a part of their reunion, whether it's coming back, whether it's the friends, whether it's the committee involvement-- whatever it may be, it's fun to come home, as you said, even though you live down the street.
EMILY FARR: And twisting the arm of other people to come back who want to, but, you know, they might have just not gotten around to buying that ticket. I like having a reason to reach out and say, it's going to be a lot of fun. You should come back. So Meghan Markle, if you're listening, come on home.
[BOTH LAUGH]
CASSIE PETOSKEY: I could see how it would be really fun to get a call from you to twist someone's arm to buy that ticket and come back. That's great. And Emily, you shared a lot of really great career insights throughout our conversation, but I definitely want to make sure that we give you at a few more minutes if you have any other career advice that you'd want to share with the Northwestern network today.
EMILY FARR: My advice to anybody listening who's at a turning point or at a starting point is to take ownership. This goes back to doing the work. Take ownership of what you do. Whether it's something that you're doing temporarily or permanently or in reality you don't know how long you're doing it, take ownership of it. I tell clients all the time the number one thing that keeps people happy at work is not compensation, not benefits. It's feelings of ownership.
We are all as humans a lot happier when we take ownership of what we're doing. And that, by the way, applies whether you're staying at home or you're working-- really, in any aspect of your life. When you're present and when you approach things with that ownership, you are happier, and you do a lot better, and you're more content and fulfilled.
So take ownership. And if you don't have an opportunity at your current job to take ownership, that's probably time to move on. Ownership is worth a lot of money, I would say. So if someone's looking at two positions, and one is, perhaps, a little bit less paying, but you have the opportunity to lead, maybe you have an opportunity to be creative, to really decide the direction of the role-- that would be a job I'd really look at hard and think about taking seriously.
CASSIE PETOSKEY: Yeah. I have really enjoyed hearing all of your tangible insights and advice on ways to find that fulfillment in your life and your career. And Emily, I just want to thank you so much for sitting down with us and sharing all of these great insights. Thank you for being here.
EMILY FARR: Well, Cassie, thank you so much. This has been such a great conversation, and I just am grateful for the opportunity.
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CASSIE PETOSKEY: Thank you for tuning into today's episode of Northwestern Intersections. To find more information about the podcast, please visit northwestern.edu/intersections. Have a great rest of your day, and go Cats.